Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-01-2004, 09:28 AM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

It now appears likely that most major media mistranslated a key phrase in bin-Laden's video speech.

The new translation carries a very important change in meaning.

Arabic translators at both the Middle East Media Research Center, AND at an unaffiliated Islamist website, have both reached the same conclusion regarding what should be the correct translation.

Here are two excerpts detailing the error, corrected version, and its implications:


(excerpt)"The tape of Osama bin Laden that was aired Friday on Al-Jazeera included a specific threat to "each U.S. state," designed to influence the outcome of Tuesday's election, according to the Arabic translators at the prestigious Middle East Media Research Center.

The U.S. media have mistranslated the words "ay wilaya" (which means "each U.S. state") to mean a "country" or "nation" other than the U.S., says MEMRI, while in reality bin Laden's threat was directed specifically at each individual U.S. state. MEMRI specializes in translating Middle Eastern documents, speeches and the like for Western consumption.

Translated correctly, bin Laden's speech suggests some knowledge of the U.S. electoral college system. In fact, notes MEMRI, in one section of his speech where he harshly criticizes President Bush, bin Laden states: "Any U.S. state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security."
(end excerpt)


(excerpt)"The Islamist website Al-Qal'a explained what this sentence meant: "This message was a warning to every U.S. state separately. When he [bin Laden] said, 'Every state will be determining its own security, and will be responsible for its choice,' it means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president has chosen to fight us, and we will consider it our enemy, and any state that will vote against Bush has chosen to make peace with us, and we will not characterize it as an enemy. By this characterization, Sheikh Osama wants to drive a wedge in the American body, to weaken it, and he wants to divide the American people itself between enemies of Islam and the Muslims, and those who fight for us, so that he doesn't treat all American people as if they're the same. This letter will have great implications inside the American society, part of which are connected to the American elections, and part of which are connected to what will come after the elections.""(end excerpt)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=41211
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-01-2004, 09:42 AM
Knockwurst Knockwurst is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 3
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

Well then I hope he realizes NY is a blue state and Texas is a red state. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-01-2004, 09:43 AM
Michael Davis Michael Davis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 613
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

I don't know, I really doubt this, Osama's beef is with America first and Bush second. Sure, Bush's policies have undoubtedly exacerbated his anger, but he has been angry for years.

Secondly, the US public will not break apart over this issue. As has been pointed out, we are not Spain, and tend to react in a very different (if equally irrational) manner towards threats.

Finally, the most attractive targets for terrorists are mostly in states that are firmly in Kerry's camp.

-Michael
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-01-2004, 10:24 AM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

I agree with your points but I do not believe bin-Laden will necesaarily do what he says he will do and therefore I do not "really doubt this".

It hinges on the accuracy of the translation and there are two expert independent sources saying that this is the correct translation. That they concur and are of vastly different political outlooks adds credibility to their translations as well.

Also, it seems likely to me that bin-Laden would prefer a President whom he perceives would not be so aggressive overseas especially in the Middle East. I know the liberals on this forum disagree with this assessment, but if the translation proves to be what these sources say it is, that will prove that their view is wrong and that bin-Laden would prefer Kerry.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-01-2004, 10:37 AM
W00lygimp W00lygimp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 309
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

'nother reason not to vote for Kerry...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-01-2004, 11:55 AM
David Steele David Steele is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 428
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

Your story comes from a conservative group which got it from this
Odd source

Is there a media conspiracy to explain why not many are reporting this?

I doubt the translation interpretation is correct.

D.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-01-2004, 12:06 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

There are two sources: why are you ignoring the Islamist web site translation (which concurs)? You know what "Islamist" means, right?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-01-2004, 12:18 PM
David Steele David Steele is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 428
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

There was no obvious link to the Islamist site.
You do know what "link" means? Why so mean anyway?

D.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-01-2004, 12:26 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

Sorry for the tone. I thought you should not have tried to make a point like that when the "Islamic Fundamentalist side" apparently concurs as well and you simply ignored evidence of that.

There is no link in the article but the material is quoted directly from the Islamist site and the site is named, so I don't see why anyone would have trouble finding that site if they want to. Personally I would rather not visit Islamist sites. I once or twice visited al-Mahajiroun, and it was indeed all it was purported to be. Scary stuff.

By the way the article cites not only the Islamist site al-Qal'a, but also the Islamist site al-Islah, both in reference to their explanations of bin-Laden's message. Feel free to check them out if you wish to; perhaps you will encounter more detailed commentary on bin-Laden's message (as well as some other things bound to be of interest).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-01-2004, 12:39 PM
David Steele David Steele is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 428
Default Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"

Hard to find what they are referring too.

Isn't a message board some place like this where anyone is free to post all kinds of claims?

Translating the actual videotape seems fairly easy, why can't CNN do it? You would think it would not depend on annonymous posters.

D.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.