How much of a difference does being suited make HU?

[kiddo]

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I don't really understand the 54s defense from an UTG raise. Don't you want about 5-1 for you possibility to flop a flush draw or OPESD. you could pair a four or five, but that is not really all that desireable. What's your thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are u defending against UTGraise from BB with small pairs like 77-22? I guess u do? (at least 44 and up?)

Do u automatically give up if u dont hit a set on flop?

I guess not?

Small pairs are pretty ok against UTG raise because if flop is all rags (below T) u are ahead more often then not. With 1 high card its tricky and with 2 its good time to bet and fold if raised (or even checkfold, even if that is a bit weak).

[rory]

I'm not a big fan of defending with hands like 22 and 33. Too hard to play postflop.

[MAxx]

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Are u defending against UTGraise from BB with small pairs like 77-22? I guess u do? (at least 44 and up?)


[/ QUOTE ]

Typically i do defend 44+. Sometimes 22 and 33.

I think 44 is worth defending, while the possibility of drawing to a 4 is not as worthy of defending.

[kiddo]

In your first post u wrote:

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you could pair a four or five, but that is not really all that desireable

[/ QUOTE ]

In next post:

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I think 44 is worth defending

[/ QUOTE ]

U also wrote:

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the possibility of drawing to a 4 is not as worthy of defending.

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We are not calling with 54s in BB because we are drawing for a 4. We are drawing for straight, flush, 4s or 5s.

[kurosh]

Against a TAG UTG raise, the difference between 77 and 22 is negligable.

[ALL1N]

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Against a TAG UTG raise, the difference between 77 and 22 is negligable.

[/ QUOTE ]

[rory]

you are right. pokerstove says it is about a 1% difference.

[Poldi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are u defending against UTGraise from BB with small pairs like 77-22? I guess u do? (at least 44 and up?)


[/ QUOTE ]

Typically i do defend 44+. Sometimes 22 and 33.

I think 44 is worth defending, while the possibility of drawing to a 4 is not as worthy of defending.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is better about 44 than 33 or 22 in this case? Its not like you are going to lose to a pair of 4´s ever when defending 22 in this spot. I think they are exactly the same here so it doesnt make sense to me to defend one of them but dump the others.

[kurosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Ofcourse there is, you will make a flush more often, but maybe more important, will flop a draw you can play hard and maybe take it down unimproved, which would make suitedness more important vs later raises than early ones as it´s easier to bluff successfully I think.

There are tons of hands I defend suited that I fold offsuit against button opens.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the thread has gone off on somewhat of a tangent so I'll try to get it back on track.

TStone said you flop a flush draw 10% of the time (if it's wrong, blame him.) The semibluff is a powerful tool, but you'll only be able to use it 10% of the time. The lower bound of my defense is 76o and, for me, the only thing suitedness does is maybe add 65s and MAYBE 75s.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
In your first post u wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
you could pair a four or five, but that is not really all that desireable

[/ QUOTE ]

In next post:

[ QUOTE ]
I think 44 is worth defending

[/ QUOTE ]

U also wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
the possibility of drawing to a 4 is not as worthy of defending.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are not calling with 54s in BB because we are drawing for a 4. We are drawing for straight, flush, 4s or 5s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really see any dramatic inconsistencies in the statements that you quoted.

I'm basically saying that your implied odds on your flushdraw & openendedstraigtdraw alone are not there. If we both agree that to be true, then you are saying that drawing to the 4 or 5 swings the decision from a fold to a call. I am saying, while I could be wrong, that I do not believe that drawing to a 4 or 5 make this fold a call here. However, I do believe that a pair of fours pf is worth playing because it is ahead often enough.