A5s and JJ. Opinions please.

#1 12-11-2005, 12:52 PM

First hand is A5s in the BB. Should I have 4 bet the river? and how about the flop and turn?

SB is complete clueless person. Calling river with king high. Playing 93suited in the early position. The hand:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.

River: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad 5d (flush, ace high).
SB has 6d Kd (flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB. 

Second hand. I have JJ. On the flop there is overcard. I figured out, my implied odds were 1:19 and in really best possible case 1:23. I was 1: 22.5 underdog. There were all kind of draws on the board and 4 people. JT, QJ, KJ may already have my outs. So I folded on the flop. Correct decision? Please tell me.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, UTG calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, CO folds, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Tc Qh (straight, king high).
UTG+1 has Qs Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins 15.50 BB.

Doc7 · #2 12-11-2005, 12:58 PM

hand one: pound that flop!!

hand 1, hand 2: don't post result / stuff that happens after you fold.

i would have called that flop, that pot is big enough

Vote4Pedro · #3 12-11-2005, 12:59 PM

Hand1: raise it up on the turn...you might get some pairs or straight draws to tag along

Hand2: Getting 14:1, you can definitely peel with your set outs, BDFD, as well as BDSD.

#4 12-11-2005, 01:08 PM

Hand 1 - I am torn between raising the flop or the turn. Either way, I think you need to raise in one of those two spots. Now knowing what the turn, I say raise that since it looks like a straight just as much as a flush. Good chance of getting 3bet.

Hand 2 - good fold

Hand 2 -

#5 12-11-2005, 01:12 PM

What you mean pound that flop?

I didn't raise the turn not to lose any customers. There were still 3 others on the turn. And once on river on top pair might even decide to call as well. I don't think raising the turn in this situation will give you max. expectation in the long run.

I didn't reraise the 3 better because he might have an 8, like J8 or Q8. He would definitely play his gutshot.

#6 12-11-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand1: raise it up on the turn...you might get some pairs or straight draws to tag along

Hand2: Getting 14:1, you can definitely peel with your set outs, BDFD, as well as BDSD.

[/ QUOTE ]

With so many limpers I think you definitely have discounted outs. For a set you need 1:22.5 on the turn. There is still flush draw. Nah, who agrees with me that calling this flop is bad? You max is really 1:24 on the flop to turn. And there are 3 opponents.

#7 12-11-2005, 01:20 PM

Damn, I really doubt, raise the hand A5s on the flop? I really didn't want to lose any limpers. Going for a c/r on the turn/river there was big probability 2 people would call my raise. and then lead out the river.

I would raise the flop against 1 opponent though.

Leak?

Vote4Pedro · #8 12-11-2005, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't reraise the 3 better because he might have an 8, like J8 or Q8. He would definitely play his gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why we raise the turn, these hands are more than willing to pay you off. How would you feel if that river card filled him up? Would you complain of a bad beat?

AlmightyJay · #9 12-11-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First hand is A5s in the BB. Should I have 4 bet the river? and how about the flop and turn?

SB is complete clueless person. Calling river with king high. Playing 93suited in the early position. The hand:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.

River: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad 5d (flush, ace high).
SB has 6d Kd (flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB. 

Second hand. I have JJ. On the flop there is overcard. I figured out, my implied odds were 1:19 and in really best possible case 1:23. I was 1: 22.5 underdog. There were all kind of draws on the board and 4 people. JT, QJ, KJ may already have my outs. So I folded on the flop. Correct decision? Please tell me.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, UTG calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, CO folds, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Tc Qh (straight, king high).
UTG+1 has Qs Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins 15.50 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

In hand 1 I'm capping the river against such a terrible player. nh otherwise. Flop is potentially a raise to clean up A/K outs, but I don't think calling is bad either.

Hand 2 I'm betting this flop. You can't immediately assume you're behind just because a single overcard fell. If it was an A, maybe, but it's a K. If it's one bet back to me, I'm calling and folding the turn UI. Two or three back to me and I'm insta-folding.

Vote4Pedro · #10 12-11-2005, 01:33 PM

It must be early, I didnt even notice that hero checked the flop w/ JJ. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]