200/400 hand 1 - Page 4

gonores · #31 09-19-2005, 12:43 PM

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I wasn't saying anything about pumping the pot. I was saying that if A2 has 'significant' showdown value then it means that it does well against his hand range here. So why not 3-bet for value?

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Because 3-betting ensures you will either win a small pot, lose a small pot where you are unsure if you made the proper laydown, or lose a large pot. You're narrowing your hand range too much in a situation where you will only flop a "I'm sure I am going to showdown" hand >20% of the time. Like James said, I'm much more inclined to 3bet with a 78s hand or even a QTo hand than with A2o.

gonores · #32 09-19-2005, 12:46 PM

This hit me on my way to sleep last night. I certainly don't agree with it at the moment, but I was wondering if an argument could be made for it.

Fold preflop.

Is A2o a "play it or go home" hand?

DcifrThs · #33 09-19-2005, 12:51 PM

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This hit me on my way to sleep last night. I certainly don't agree with it at the moment, but I was wondering if an argument could be made for it.

Fold preflop.

Is A2o a "play it or go home" hand?

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no, its not. it depends on the player, how he's playing and how he views you. it is assumed james took these into acct and decided to play.

for the most part though, Ahigh here is good.

Barron

gonores · #34 09-19-2005, 01:20 PM

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no, its not. it depends on the player, how he's playing and how he views you. it is assumed james took these into acct and decided to play.

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Well, duh. What I'm trying to say is you're staring across the table at either a great or WC type player, raising from the cutoff (as opposed to the button).

I'd play it for sure, but i hear i have a big ego.

DcifrThs · #35 09-19-2005, 01:28 PM

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no, its not. it depends on the player, how he's playing and how he views you. it is assumed james took these into acct and decided to play.

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Well, duh. What I'm trying to say is you're staring across the table at either a great or WC type player, raising from the cutoff (as opposed to the button).

I'd play it for sure, but i hear i have a big ego.

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its much more of a call than it is a fold b/c at these limits the button is slightly extended imo.

Barron

stoxtrader · #36 09-19-2005, 01:38 PM

My default cutoff for defending a steal is A4o, the pip value actually does make a difference I belive. James plays pretty sweet post-flop, so the call is just fine as well.

theBruiser500 · #37 09-19-2005, 01:42 PM

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If you're checkraising the turn it's for value. I dunno what you saw or think you saw JDags do but I'm almost certain he isn't folding pairs to you on this board.

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yeah that was my reaction. he's going to fold a pair, on a paired board in button vs. BB??

DcifrThs · #38 09-19-2005, 01:47 PM

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My default cutoff for defending a steal is A4o, the pip value actually does make a difference I belive. James plays pretty sweet post-flop, so the call is just fine as well.

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yea i guess i shoulda noted this in my response. i personally do not defend this.

ranks of kickers make a difference here more than most think.

benefits of defending in this spot though if i were james are multifold and can push it to a call more than fold even though thats the basic catagory these hands fall in for a player like james.

i personally toss it...

Barron

J.A.Sucker · #39 09-19-2005, 01:50 PM

You are right here, Paluka. Checkraising is the worst thing you can do here against John, BTW. If you want to get tricky, then bet out.

James282 · #40 09-19-2005, 02:23 PM

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You are right here, Paluka. Checkraising is the worst thing you can do here against John, BTW. If you want to get tricky, then bet out.

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Is this from live experience with him or online experience? Because he was playing much differently(as far as what he was showing down) than he does online. At this point in playing, I don't think he viewed me as very tricky - and I am certain that he layed down *at least* top pair in a hand previous to this one against another player whom I think had an image similar to mine. The fact is, the board on the flop is so dry that against an unknown I think you almost have to give them credit for a hand or a draw. When the draw comes in on the turn, the gig is up. Since I am out of position, though, I think betting out is indeed superior to checking hoping to raise because there are a zillion cards I don't want to see on the river and this is the perfect card for him to take a free card with since it's a board where I'll almost always have something.
-James