Correct Play in a Large Pot?

Subby · #1 01-30-2005, 10:11 PM

No read on either opponent as this was about four hands in to the session. I am unsure particularly about my play on the flop and turn here. With 6 outs I felt I was getting proper odds, but I am not sure if I am calculating correctly once I start calling raises. Should I have discounted any? All I could think of was Ed Miller telling me to stay in those large pots! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 5 folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, SB raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, SB caps, UTG+1 calls $1 (All-In), Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

Oponn · #2 01-30-2005, 10:50 PM

It may be a large pot, but given preflop and flop action, you have to assume that not only is your hand no good, but there are a lot of ways for you to "improve" and still lose.

The T is not a clean out because it puts a 4-straight on board and is probably worth one out at best. The 9 is not a great out either despite the fact that you have two straight-stopping tens in your hand. You might hit and lose to a better straight, hit and lose to a flush (e.g. 9h), or hit and have to split the pot with another ten. I think a 9 is worth 2 outs at best. That's a total of 3 outs, which is generous. You're getting 13.5-1 on your turn call, and you need 14.5 at the very minimum.

It may seem close, but I would lean toward folding on the turn unless you're playing against total maniacs. Implied odds are cancelled out by reverse-implied odds. You can't confidently bet your hand for value if you hit.

badplayer · #3 01-30-2005, 10:51 PM

Another ten isn't exactly a clean out. 99 and T9 are possibilites though not likely.

Since it was capped pre-flop, you probably are looking at a bigger pair or a set on the flop.

If you knew the flop would be capped, would you have stayed all the way? Yes, you are getting 6-to-1 which I guess makes it okay. However, it looks like you are what I was just a few months ago -- a calling station.

Raise or fold. I think it's close, but I would fold. There are just too many hands that have you beat.

After the flop, you are correct. The pot is too big to fold.

Subby · #4 01-31-2005, 01:04 AM

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

I thought my tens were clean simply because I didn't have anyone on a 9 based on pre-flop action. I also felt that the all-in guy might have something spurious (since all-ins are often just desperation-betting). Pre-flop, I kind of got sucked in. I have to re-raise there and I can't fold to the cap bet after I've already re-raised.

I guess I don't see where raising on the flop and/or turn would have accomplished anything in this particular case - especially since the original pre-flop raiser bet out on the flop into the two pre-flop re-raisers.

This hand is still pretty interesting to me - even being in it is borderline, but the pot size and having one guy all-in seemed to change the dynamic a bit.

Thanks again.