Sanity check

Nietzsche · #1 08-20-2005, 04:08 AM

No reads on MP, BB is loose passive.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP raises, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Anyone not call these hands down? Say on a rainbow board instead?

Chairman Wood · #2 08-20-2005, 04:18 AM

I would think that you might be able to fold after the turn raise if anywhere. Maybe I should be more willing to get away from them here but without a read I would call down and feel a great deal of unease like you. Even if I won this I would feel uneasy. If you do call that though you need to call the river too, nothing changed.

SinCityGuy · #3 08-20-2005, 04:51 AM

Folding the flop after getting raised might be too weak. However, you don't have the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and I wouldn't be overjoyed if one of them came on the turn. Reverse domination with the ace is also a consideration because a lot of these donks limp in with hands like A5, A6 and A7.

Nietzsche · #4 08-20-2005, 05:04 AM

I agree reverse domination seems very likely the way the hand was played. But will a hand like A8, a lower PP or a flush draw play like this often enough that calling down is OK? I'm starting to think no. I have shown aggression on 3 streets already and he hasn't backed down.

Stork · #5 08-20-2005, 05:09 AM

Call the turn to try n spike 2 pair, but I think you can fold the river w/o a read, although I probably couldn't make the fold in the heat of battle.

Nietzsche · #6 08-20-2005, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call the turn to try n spike 2 pair, but I think you can fold the river w/o a read, although I probably couldn't make the fold in the heat of battle.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have the odds for that.

Stork · #7 08-20-2005, 05:19 AM

How do you figure? 2 aces, 3 queens, or 3 card that pair the board and don't fill him up can win for you.

GoblinMason (Craig) · #8 08-20-2005, 05:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you can't fold the river w/o a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stork · #9 08-20-2005, 05:31 AM

If I'm calling, the main reason is to get a read, I don't think it's for value.

Nietzsche · #10 08-20-2005, 05:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How do you figure? 2 aces, 3 queens, or 3 card that pair the board and don't fill him up can win for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point about the board pairing, I missed that [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Still those are only outs if he has a two pair. Against a set or a straight I'm drawing dead and that has to be a consideration when figuring out the odds I need. I don't think an ace will help me that often, maybe 1/3 of the time. A Q helps me maybe 2 out of 3 times. I'd say I have 6 outs on average. Good enough for a turn call with pot odds at 9:1? When considering the times he has a set or a straight I think it is still less than I need.