2/4 KK faces a tough flop decision

ryanghall · #1 12-24-2005, 06:21 PM

Normally, I'd raise this flop but this was a tough call because of the players involved.

I don't have many hands on BB but he seems reasonable.
UTG+1 is tight, as in 14/5/1.2 nitty tight. I have no problem at all getting all-in w/ the BB shortstack but I'm a little worried about UTG+1.

Should I raise this flop anyway? Call, use my position and see what happens like I did? Bet turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($392)
SB ($206.40)
BB ($151.25)
UTG ($362.15)
UTG+1 ($400)
MP1 ($521.40)
Hero ($631.60)
MP3 ($323.95)
CO ($172)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, Hero raises to $20, 4 folds, BB calls $16, UTG+1 calls $16, MP1 calls $16.

Flop: ($82) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets $32, UTG+1 calls $32, MP1 folds, Hero calls $32.

Turn: ($178) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($178) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $40, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $40.

Final Pot: $258

xorbie · #2 12-24-2005, 06:33 PM

Seeing as MP1 folded the flop, don't you mean BB is nitty? Or something? I think not raising the flop is ok as long as you're not gonna get too crazy on the turn, which you didn't. FWIW, I think your line is at least a solid one insomuch as it doesn't contradict itself.

ryanghall · #3 12-24-2005, 06:41 PM

Whoops, edited my post, I apologize.

Ryan

Raven · #4 12-24-2005, 07:51 PM

I would raise as any decent player will raise a set on the flop as it have a lot of possible draw. So I would raise it to 120-140 $. If UTG+1 reraise all-in you can fold, as he his not the type of player who will push his draw all-in usually, but I dont know him.

BobboFitos · #5 12-24-2005, 08:02 PM

raise the flop

its a bad flop

giving a card for 35 is not solid

raise = BB's remaining stack

expect him to be all in with Q4 and UTG+1 to move in or fold. if he moves in you fold. if he folds you likely will win a nice pot.

iceman5 · #6 12-24-2005, 08:18 PM

Once UTG+1 folds, why not raise the BB all in? I dont believe he has a flush or AK, but will still call with alot of other hands.

He probably has QJ and is probably bad enough to call.

ryanghall · #7 12-25-2005, 12:09 PM

BB had AK (?!?) and my hand is not good. Glad I just called on the river though.

I guess I got scared when nit called but I should have certainly raised the flop. I suppose I figured the chances that one of them having me beat were pretty good - and I was wrong. If I raise the flop, I can certainly fold to an all-in from nit... the problem is if he smoothcalls.

Ryan

Maulik · #8 12-25-2005, 12:31 PM

absolutely raise or fold the flop. given that there are 2 broadway cards and the flush draw its likely someone has 2 pair, but you can't play so timidly.

raise to 120.

#9 12-25-2005, 04:15 PM

Ryan, I'm not the wisest player, but I'll let you know exactly how I would have played this hand,

Personally I disagree with you, when you said tough flop for a KK I was expecting to see an A on the flop, there was no A, it was a beautiful flop for you, The fact that two hearts were on the flop, made it even more imperative that you raise BIG here. Only a set beats you, everything else is a draw, if he has AA, than I'm going to lose anyways, I don't throw away KK, or give free cards with it.

If he has QJ, I note that he calls big raises with inferior cards, I'm happy to give him my money, rebuy and build his sense of confidence so I can tear him apart later, I'll look to isolation raise him later and go heads up as many times as I can until I win my money back with interest.

KK, was obviously good here to me. I would have reraised all in immediately on the flop, and I wouldn't of hated it if they both called because I don't think either of them would be ahead in the hand, As we found out, BB was not ahead, if you make him go all in praying for a 10, I doubt he can do it.

#10 12-26-2005, 06:58 AM

Seeing that the flop has two hearts, i myself would have no problem re-raising a substantial amount on the flop. Maybe around 3-4 times the BB intial bet on the flop. Also, like mentioned above, why not re-raise the river also. Although, your play here to me was the most conservative safest approach to this hand possible.