Silly little PF w/ 66

[irishpint]

First hand Im in the BB. 2 calls, SB folds and I have 66. Who checks and who raises it up?

Slightly different, say there is one caller and I'm in the SB...now who just calls and who raises it up?

Is this simple, why don't I know my answers?

Also, how do 55 and 77 compare?

[aargh57]

I usually call in the first situation and raise in the second. My reasoning is that you've got the same position but you have a better chance of getting HU in the second. However, against players who fold a lot postflop I would probably raise in the first situation. Don't take my word for it though. I'm probably wrong.

[jba]

hand one I think is an easy check, I really want this to be heads up esp in worst position.

hand two I want a read on BB; if there's decent chance he's folding, raise it up, if he's a fish just complete.

[JoshuaD]

First situation: Check every single time. Your hand is simply not good enough to take the lead here. Raising preflop destroys your postflop expectation and isn't very +EV in the first place. OOP with a low PP sucks, especially against more than one opponent. (It still sucks vs one).

Second situation: Call.

55: Ditto.

77: 77 is close. 99 I'm raising every time in these situations. 88 I'm raising like 2/3's of the time. 77 probably around 1/3 of the time.

Those aren't based on randomness. It depends on my opponents whether I raise or call. The more likely they are to c/f the flop the more likely I am to raise.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
hand one I think is an easy check, I really want this to be heads up esp in worst position.

hand two I want a read on BB; if there's decent chance he's folding, raise it up, if he's a fish just complete.

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally agree with this, although I'm usually raising 77-66 from the SB sans read.

[MicroBob]

"Second situation: Call. "


i don't understand why anyone would want to call in the 2nd situation.
1 little limper (perhaps even a button limper, we don't know) and you have 66 in the SB. Don't give the BB a free flop with his 93o or whatever.
Go ahead and take initiative as any ace or king-high flop could be yours for the taking with just one bet (this is read dependant of course).

I'm raising this every single time and I don't think it's really that close. Calling in the SB when there's just one open-limper feels awfully weak to me.

[JoshuaD]

MicroBob: It's been my experience that a raise here doesn't fold an unknown BB often enough. If a raise is pretty sure to fold the BB, I agree we should raise. At 5/10, that hasn't been my experience, and I don't want this 3-way OOP.

I'd rather keep the pot small and play smart agressive postflop.

Your argument definitely has merit though. It all depends on what we assume about the BB.

[MicroBob]

my losing generally continues and continues (with brief spurts of actually winning) and at pathetically low limits (well...2/4 and 3/6 feels pathetically low to me these days) and most of that losing is due to over-aggression on my part.
High PFR to VP ratio...high flop-ag...etc etc.

So learning where my 'obvious raise' situations aren't quite so obvious to the rest of the TAG short-handed universe is quite helpful to me.


to that end, I'll be looking over Trix's PF quiz to see where I'm differing from the rest of the pack.


But in this hand it never even would have occured to me that limping could even be considered here so I'm glad you were able to point out that it actually could be valid.

Sooner or later, in spite of myself, this forum will succeed in getting me to play better.

[JoshuaD]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. If it's any consolation, I've always considered you a strong player. It surprises me to find out you're still not running well.

[adsman]

I check the first hand.
I usually raise the second unless the BB is very loose.