I don't know how to deal with the donk turn

[Wynton]

Somewhat common donk-situation has been throwing me.

Say I raise in mp with something like 99. Only bb calls. Flop is A83, rainbow. He checks, I bet, he calls. Turn is 6, completing the rainbow. He bets. Is the best line here simply calling down?

Suppose the turn was an overcard, like a J and villain donks. What would you do here?

My tendency has been to give the donker credit for a decent hand, but I wanted to check whether this makes sense, at least as a general rule.

[PTjvs]

Donking seems very very opponenet dependant. Different players simply donk with different things. That said, my deafault vs. an unknown here is to call down with only 1 over on board, but I'd fold if there were 2.

jvs

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Donking seems very very opponenet dependant.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah I agree, but with one overcard I am usually calling down. If the turn introduced a new flush draw or an obvious straight draw I am often raising for free showdown in this spot.

[TheDelChop]

Why not just raise for the free showdown? If the BB really loves his hand he'll 3bet and you'll fold, or he will call and you can check behind him on the river. If you are going to put two bets in, at least have some fold equity.

As an aside, I think people on this forum, especially the people who are marginal winners (often times like myself) are awfully hesitant to fold in a situation like this.

I think calling down is only a good line against someone who will continue to pour bets in with the worst hand. If the BB has an 8 or a 6 or a draw (Hands that you beat) there is no way he's putting a 3rd bet in on the turn, he'll call and you will have made an extremly +EV play.

If he has a weak ace, I think he will call and check the river or possibly decide that A-2 is no good and fold allowing you to win with a worse hand.

If he has two pair he will 3 bet and you can fold.

Unless you think that your opponent will 3-bet with hands you are ahead of and force you to fold a better hand, there is no point in calling down. Raise, and take a free river.

Actually, raise, spike a nine and bet the river.

In the case that the turn is another overcard, I think a fold is a safe play, as its tough to be ahead.

[Chobohoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat common donk-situation has been throwing me.

Say I raise in mp with something like 99. Only bb calls. Flop is A83, rainbow. He checks, I bet, he calls. Turn is 6, completing the rainbow. He bets. Is the best line here simply calling down?

Suppose the turn was an overcard, like a J and villain donks. What would you do here?

My tendency has been to give the donker credit for a decent hand, but I wanted to check whether this makes sense, at least as a general rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is trying to make this a general case. It isn't. We need to know how long you've been playing with this guy, and what kind of player he is.

If you or he just showed up at the table, I would raise for a free showdown. Since you're going to have position on this guy a lot, so you need to know what's going on when he does this.

If you've been there for a while, let us know when he normally does this. If it's often, start raising him. (insert RAWWISE! here)

[TheDelChop]

I agree with Chobohoya, raise, and take a free showdown except no matter how long you have been playing with this guys I don't think you can bet any river card except a 9. If he bets the river I have to figure I am beat.

[Wynton]

Hey, I think I may actually have learned something here. Raising the donk seems pretty safe. If I'm 3-bet, I can readily fold to an unknown, and otherwise, I may well get a free card. I like it.

One thing I've noticed is that often the donk bet comes when the turn creates a draw, usually a flush draw. It's hard to tell, though, whether the donker is betting out of fear for the draw, or because he just picked up a draw. Does anyone have an opinion which is more common?

[Chobohoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I think I may actually have learned something here. Raising the donk seems pretty safe. If I'm 3-bet, I can readily fold to an unknown, and otherwise, I may well get a free card. I like it.

One thing I've noticed is that often the donk bet comes when the turn creates a draw, usually a flush draw. It's hard to tell, though, whether the donker is betting out of fear for the draw, or because he just picked up a draw. Does anyone have an opinion which is more common?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the thing. You really have to observe his play to figure out which is which-- donking used to be called "a bet out of nowhere" and without a read you're not going to know what to make of it. Generally that will lead you to raise. Further action will depend on your hand, in this case, you'd have to fold.

[JrJordan]

I'm a big believer that the raise turn for free showdown move is overrated. If you just call the turn bet, how often does he follow up on the river? In the current aggro 6-max games I'd guess around 90% of the time. If he's bluffing, your call gives us the chance to make another BB, where raising the turn will cause him to fold. A missed draw on the river will likeky fire a desperation bet to take the pot after betting the flop as well.

Against a more small stakes, passive table I can see raising for the free showdown to be good since there's a less likely chance they'll bet any river card. Against the standard aggro lineup though, calling the donk is as good, if not better the majority of the time.

[aslowjoe]

Donk bets are the hardest bets to handle because you have no idea what just happened. IF I have no read at all on the guy and there is an A on the board I will just call down. They like to bluff with A or when the board pairs.

I am not quite sure what you are accomplishing by a turn raise. If you are three bet you have to throw away your chance to spike a 9 if your behind, putting in the same amount of chips as getting to showdown.