Racism in the NBA and NFL

[BettyBoopAA]

Quote: I'll refer you to my earlier comments...the natural standards for NBA dress is the uniform they wear during the game. After the game, I agree that they shouldn't wear anything "offensive," but I don't think David Stern and a bunch of stuffy old white guy owners should have the right to define an entire culture of black fashion as "offensive" and "intolerable." It's a targeted effort to "whitewash" the league. No matter the reason, there's a racist element in that.

Of course they do, the NBA is a buisness, where I work, we have a certain dress code as well. The commisioner is trying to fix a problem that is getter worse. For many fans, the NBA has become unwatchable. So if future players want to earn obscene money for shooting a basket in a net, then maybe they could thank their lucky stars and help try to market the product better instead of being a bunch of spoiled selfish babies. If you think that's racist, then call me a racist.

[SammyKid11]

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For many fans, the NBA has become unwatchable.

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Why is seeing black fashion an unwatchable event for white America? Is there a legitimate reason for the unwatchability of do-rags and throwback jerseys and gold chains? Why is Johnny Damon's hair not unwatchable? Why were Jim McMahon's earrings not unwatchable?

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about that.



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So if future players want to earn obscene money for shooting a basket in a net, then maybe they could thank their lucky stars and help try to market the product better instead of being a bunch of spoiled selfish babies.

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How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER? Different maybe...more white, maybe. But what is intrinsically BETTER about collared shirts than throwback jerseys?

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If you think that's racist, then call me a racist.

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I don't think I will. I know nothing about you other than that your opinion differs from mine.

[Zurvan]

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How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER?

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Why do you think they have a right to express anything about themselves at work? Let's face it - this is about the clothes they wear while they are at work. The clothes they wear to the arena, during the game if they're on the bench, and after the game in interviews.

Everyone with a job, and a boss, has certain clothing they have to wear to work. Why should they be different?

The reason their clothing offends people isn't racism (at least 99% of people). It's not young black people expressing themselves that turns people off the NBA. It's the massive egos that scream to everyone around "I am an NBA star. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to listen to the rules." Refusing to follow a simple (and very lenient) dress code is an example of this, and it's very childish. As an example, the NHL requires players to wear a suit & tie to all games, and for all team travel.

The dress code won't make the product better. But it might turn down some of the rampant egos, and make the stars more palatable to the general public. Stars are what sells a sport, and that's what makes these guys rich.

[SammyKid11]

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How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER?

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Why do you think they have a right to express anything about themselves at work? Let's face it - this is about the clothes they wear while they are at work. The clothes they wear to the arena, during the game if they're on the bench, and after the game in interviews.

Everyone with a job, and a boss, has certain clothing they have to wear to work. Why should they be different?

The reason their clothing offends people isn't racism (at least 99% of people). It's not young black people expressing themselves that turns people off the NBA. It's the massive egos that scream to everyone around "I am an NBA star. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to listen to the rules." Refusing to follow a simple (and very lenient) dress code is an example of this, and it's very childish. As an example, the NHL requires players to wear a suit & tie to all games, and for all team travel.

The dress code won't make the product better. But it might turn down some of the rampant egos, and make the stars more palatable to the general public. Stars are what sells a sport, and that's what makes these guys rich.

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Read the question...it's not about a right to express yourself at work. I'm asking a more fundamental question than that. I'm asking why "acceptable" has to be defined by "whatever white people wear." I'm asking what is intrinsically, fundamentally more valuable about polo shirts than throwback jerseys.

And I'm not talking about a following of the rules -- I'm not talking about NBA players BREAKING the dress code...I'm challenging why the dress code is there in the first place. I'm also challenging why that dress code is aimed at black athletes? Why not a hair-length requirement to make Steve Nash look more "corporate?" Because white America doesn't care about the league looking more corporate, they care about the league looking less black. You're failing to respond to the Damon/McMahon segment of my argument...which IMHO is because it can't be responded to adequately without conceding a racist element in the rule. There simply isn't a good reason why white edginess is tolerated while black edginess is not.

Oh, and if you think ego harms sales...you obviously have not been paying attention to Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Allen Iverson, every boxer, Michael Irvin, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, etc. So if your reasoning for the dress code is, "make 'em wear 'traditional' clothes and their egos will be lower," I'd first of all say I doubt it. And I'd second of all say, lower egos do not equal higher sales.

[Zurvan]

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[ QUOTE ]
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How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think they have a right to express anything about themselves at work? Let's face it - this is about the clothes they wear while they are at work. The clothes they wear to the arena, during the game if they're on the bench, and after the game in interviews.

Everyone with a job, and a boss, has certain clothing they have to wear to work. Why should they be different?

The reason their clothing offends people isn't racism (at least 99% of people). It's not young black people expressing themselves that turns people off the NBA. It's the massive egos that scream to everyone around "I am an NBA star. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to listen to the rules." Refusing to follow a simple (and very lenient) dress code is an example of this, and it's very childish. As an example, the NHL requires players to wear a suit & tie to all games, and for all team travel.

The dress code won't make the product better. But it might turn down some of the rampant egos, and make the stars more palatable to the general public. Stars are what sells a sport, and that's what makes these guys rich.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the question...it's not about a right to express yourself at work. I'm asking a more fundamental question than that. I'm asking why "acceptable" has to be defined by "whatever white people wear." I'm asking what is intrinsically, fundamentally more valuable about polo shirts than throwback jerseys.

And I'm not talking about a following of the rules -- I'm not talking about NBA players BREAKING the dress code...I'm challenging why the dress code is there in the first place. I'm also challenging why that dress code is aimed at black athletes? Why not a hair-length requirement to make Steve Nash look more "corporate?" Because white America doesn't care about the league looking more corporate, they care about the league looking less black. You're failing to respond to the Damon/McMahon segment of my argument...which IMHO is because it can't be responded to adequately without conceding a racist element in the rule. There simply isn't a good reason why white edginess is tolerated while black edginess is not.

Oh, and if you think ego harms sales...you obviously have not been paying attention to Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Allen Iverson, every boxer, Michael Irvin, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, etc. So if your reasoning for the dress code is, "make 'em wear 'traditional' clothes and their egos will be lower," I'd first of all say I doubt it. And I'd second of all say, lower egos do not equal higher sales.

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I don't understand what you're saying... they've put in a dress code for all their players. A similar dress code to ANY work environment for professionals, which these people are. This is not about making the league look more "corporate". It's about making them look like adults who dress nicely for work. Long hair has nothing to do with it. There's no rules against the players having long hair or earrings, which is why your Damon analogy is flawed. The league obviously feels like hair length & tasteful jewellry is not an issue. The dress code is not aimed at black athletes. It applies to every player in the league. The league made a point of specifically banning certain types of clothing that have become popular among players. Since most players in the league are black, those articles of clothing are things that are a popular fashion among the black athletes.

And if you think the NBA stars massive egos & childish antics do NOT hurt business, I suggest you listen to all the people who no longer follow basketball because of that. There are a lot of them, and it is hurting the business.

[Triumph36]

Ah, yes. The fundamental distinction between pandering to mistaken values or attempting to change those values.

SammyKid's asking what the problem is with throwback jerseys and jewelry. The NBA is losing fans - ticket holders just don't identify with that image. Do you see many people with ostentatious jewelry and throwback jerseys in the crowds of NBA games? You're more likely to see business casual - at least in the lower tiers.

You're asking the wrong question. It's not up to the NBA to change long-standing biases or prejudices, it's up to them to make money and sell tickets. You can shout all you want about racism, but you are all over the map with your charges. No one is complaining about Ben Wallace's hair, either. So, congratulations on the strawman, but I'm not buying it.

If you believe it is up to corporations to project values on society rather than reflect them, then the debate ends here. Again, it's not up to the NBA to tell John Q. Ticketholder in Indiana what he should think about NBA players.