Not capping w/ JJ...dunno why but...

[DcifrThs]

sb is 20/14/1.79.

i get JJ utg+1 and raise.

sb 3 bets and i call.

can't tell you why i did it but at the time i just did. its the first time in recent memory i can remember NOT capping in this spot w/ AK-TT, but i guess i felt id have the decision after the flop.

flop is QQ9 2 tone i have the 2 of the tone. sb bets out. i raise.

thoughts?
-Barron

[man]

I actually sort of like the preflop call against this guy once in a while. it gives you a chance to induce bluffs postflop while you look sort of weak. and that's a good thing.

with that in mind I'd rather call the flop and raise the [non-AK] turn. raising the flop kills your action too soon, I'm all about getting that extra .5 bet. no?

[tomahawk]

Interesting topic. I also do this sometimes, not really knowing why.

With TT/JJ it just feels like if you get a good flop you get much more money from just calling the threebet and letting villain keep initiative, whereas if you get a bad one you lose the same/maybe just slightly more.

Of course, you have the times where AK/AQ actually gives you credit for an overpair and folds the turn unimproved, missing out on the chance to outdraw you. Also I guess you could have some chance to make better hands fold once in a while by capping.

If someone with a clue could explain what they do and why it would be appreciated.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
I have JJ... flop is QQ9 2 tone i have the 2 of the tone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean that your JJ is actually... SUITED?! nh.

Just kidding, I know what you meant. Raise now, raise the turn, whatever. Just as long as you give AK the chance to fold.

Good luck.
Eric

[URMeowed]

When it's a head up situation like this, I don't mind just flat calling JJ against thinking players or someone that I have played a lot of poker with. These are perfect times to throw a curveball since nothing is lost but a lot of gained. Notice that small bet lost preflop by not capping is gained right back on the flop. But what do I know, I'm just a cat.

Meow.

[ike]

Didn't I do something very much like this against you like 2 nights ago? Where I smoothcalled your sb 3bet with QQ preflop. Anyway, yah, I like it. I think I go for the turn raise a lot here, but the flop raise is fine too. The preflop call (rather than cap) is good when you're in position because the 3better will be autobetting any flop and you can then raise there if you want or try and go for the extra .5BB by waiting to raise the turn. Very often the preflop smoothcall will cause an opponent to misread your hand and go off for tons of bets postflop.
Earlier when we were talking about this situation you mentioned that you don't necesarilly want the opponent autobetting when an overcard falls. I actually disagree. Suppose the flop comes K72 and he leads, you raise and you're in at least as good a spot in exactly the same size pot as if you cap, he checks, and you bet the same board.

[Jeff W]

I prefer to cap pre flop because I don't want to end up making FTOP-incorrect folds on boards like AK6 when my opponent has 77.

For similar reasons, I get a little out of line capping middle pocket pairs in similar situations.

Ex: I raise 77 in CO,aggressive button 3-bets, blinds fold and I cap. This cap induces FTOP-incorrect folds on later streets--hands like KT on an AA5 board or 99 on a KT5 board.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Very often the preflop smoothcall will cause an opponent to misread your hand and go off for tons of bets postflop.
Earlier when we were talking about this situation you mentioned that you don't necesarilly want the opponent autobetting when an overcard falls. I actually disagree. Suppose the flop comes K72 and he leads, you raise and you're in at least as good a spot in exactly the same size pot as if you cap, he checks, and you bet the same board

[/ QUOTE ]

in fact, this exact situation is what sprung to mind.

occasionally calling a pf 3 bet w/ these hands is very deceptive and doesn't sacrifice THAT much value as it would if you called KK/AA

i think your play subconciously affected my decision here...now stop playing well against me!

-Barron

[DeeJ]

I cap here pf. Flop I'd also raise to try to eliminate AK or 77 etc. If I'm raised right back I can call down or toss it 'cuz you aren't gonna beat a pair of Queens easily, depends on the player. As aggressive as that, I would call down most of the time. I'm not going to like a king or ace on the turn though.

[siegfriedandroy]

Hey Decifer.

Interesting problem. I know this is the high stakes forum, but doesnt SSHE recommend only capping with pp's above JJ? I wonder if the line is drawn there for any of the reasons in this thread.

Anyway, I am intrigued by the high degree of aggression recommended here when overcards fall- the consensus seems to be a combination of raising/calling down, and definitely not an immediate fold on the flop.

I understand folding w/ an overcard probably seems weak. It does to me, too. But I recall from THFAP the section where Sklansky talks about playing pp's with overcards. Sklansky says that many players spew a lot of chips in this situation, and recommends folding as likely the best option, possibly making one bet into the flop, but giving up at a sign of further aggression.

Why the difference between this section (where Sklansky prescribes a more passive line), and the aggressive approach advocated in this thread? All I can think of is that you guys are talking about only a heads up situation, where TFHAP may be referring generally to more multiway pots? Any thoughts appreciated.

Also, why is this situation a definite flop/turn raise, and not a way ahead/behind call down situation?