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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:50 PM
kevkev60614 kevkev60614 is offline
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Default $11 - I hate JJ

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG (t2405)
UTG+1 (t2520)
MP1 (t1235)
MP2 (t1825)
MP3 (t2005)
CO (t635)
Button (t1635)
Hero (t1140)
BB (t100)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls t200, <font color="#666666">3 folds

Look good?
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:52 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

At an $11? Meh, I don't think a push can be far wrong. Now at a $55+ I think a fold is the better play, especially if either opponent have shown to be any way decent. But these clowns? Let's see.

UTG+1: "I have paint" (so I raise).
MP3: "I have a pair/paint/some suited rubbish and want to see a flop" (so I call).
Hero: "I have you both pwned so I push".

That's how $11s tend to go..
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

It really depends on your reads and also the level you are playing at ($11s, $33, $55, etc). At a typical $11 Party SNG, I would probably just flat out push this hand preflop. Seeing as you are playing at Stars, and have more chips to start... I would still probably push this preflop. Folding JJ preflop is pretty weak, IMO.

You have lots of fold equity and are likely to pick up the blinds right there, which is t400 added to your stack. If UTG+1 is a SOLID player, he is not calling you with anything but premiums... QQ, KK, AA.


One other thought. The blinds are low enough right now to justify a cold call in your position. If you do this, you are playing the JJ for SET value only. If the flop comes undercards, play with caution. If Q, K, A, comes out.. well you are dumping this hand.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2005, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

I push here every time. This is a chance to increase your stack size by ~40%.

11s on Stars (the place where pros go to sharpen their game) still contain massive amounts of people that are making that same raise with ATo. If MP3 had anything to be afraid of they would have raised... these games are mechanical.

POoooooooooooooooSh.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2005, 01:04 PM
11t 11t is offline
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Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

At an $11 I'd prolly push here but I'm a little too aggressive for my own good.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 01:24 PM
VinnyTheFish VinnyTheFish is offline
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Posts: 156
Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

at $11 -- What is wrong with raise it to 550 or 650 depending on your style?

Here ? if you put the player on AA, KK, QQ ? you?re thinking fold 8 out of 10 times.

But you are at T50 BB and 2 players are at 1.5+ times their stating chips, so either they both had monsters or they were just ultra aggressive. That is big to know.

But lets put him AK, AQ AJ - suited or not.

1) who cares what the BB does? Assuming he puts in his T100 ? If you just call then the side pot is 400 and the main pot will be 300 going in. You do not want that.

2) making it 550 to play and I seriously think either UTG+1 calls or pushes, not folding here. MP3 either calls or fold ? he probably will not push. Either way, if one of them does push ? I am folding. Too early for a coin flip. In an $11, you should be able to work back up to 1200-1500 chip on basic play alone ? since you are left with near 500 and the blinds are T50.

3) Let?s say they both call 550. The side pot is 400 and the main pot is 1350. Now you can play the flop. But if the flop hits Axx or Kxx with no help to your Jacks, again, I fold and fight with T500.

At this stage in the tourn, I am not focusing on pot odds or fold equity ? I focus on keeping myself in position to gain chips. Betting 550 here allows me to (1) Grab a quick 600 (2) knock out the BB (3) quiet down one of those 2 LAG?s and let them know I can play.

But ? it sends out the message that I am weak. I?ll risk 500 chips, and miss the flop and give it up. Now ? yes ? when the blinds are 100-200, most likely I push 9 out of 10!
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:28 PM
VinnyTheFish VinnyTheFish is offline
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Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

Oddly enough:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed)
UTG (t1560)
UTG+1 (t750)
MP1 (t2040)
MP2 (t1450)
MP3 (t1470)
CO (t1540)
TheFish (t1140)
SB (t1380)
BB (t2170)

Preflop: TheFish is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t180</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, TheFish calls t180, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t160, UTG calls t160, UTG+1 folds.

<font color="red"> I have already lost about 400 chips to a LAG who was all in with 44 and rivered a 4 beating my sweet KK in the BB. I think he will call and he does.</font>
Flop: (t750) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t560</font>, TheFish folds, BB calls t560, UTG folds.

<font color="red"> Ok, I fold here. I want no part of the Ace. I do feel like if I pushed I would have had one or two callers.</font>

Turn: (t1890) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t220</font>, BB calls t220.

River: (t2330) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: t2330

<font color="red"> I have enough chips to fight, so I am not worried. I run into the same LAG and I am unlucky enough to hit the Queen high flush with about 400 chips left. Ace on teh board - yep - he has the King. </font>
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: $11 - I hate JJ

[ QUOTE ]
But these clowns? Let's see.

UTG+1: "I have paint" (so I raise).
MP3: "I have a pair/paint/some suited rubbish and want to see a flop" (so I call).
Hero: "I have you both pwned so I push".

That's how $11s tend to go..

[/ QUOTE ]

Tigerite, your accuracy in determining hand ranges never ceases to amaze me. Well put.

OP your out of position so a call here will put you in a very akward position on the flop. Even if a J spikes.

As for reraising, this is bad also because AA-QQ will still come over the top, as well as lower pairs and AK, hell even AQ would do this at the $11s, and your calling that all-in anyway, so why not push to begin with? However, by pushing everyone else’s thinking shifts to:

-“He probably has paint so my 44 is a race that I will win often enough.”
Or
-“He probably has a low pair, like 44, so my paint has pot odds to win this race often enough”.

Now, after donkbreath calls and sucks out, you must follow up with a “nice call” to keep him from second guessing himself.
[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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