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  #1  
Old 11-09-2005, 07:11 AM
ajm36 ajm36 is offline
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Default How aggressive is too aggressive?

How aggressive is to aggressive? MP1 is a rock--good PF hand selection. UTG plays a lot of hands and is a calling station--folds to turn and river bets often. The flop bet was mainly for info on MP1. I was hoping to force a fold with the turn bet. I'm pretty sure I'm the best hand. What now? Bet or check? Take the showdown for free or charge one more bet and expose myself to a raise?


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero...?
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2005, 07:15 AM
adsman adsman is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

With your read on MP1 I either 3bet preflop or fold.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2005, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

[ QUOTE ]
UTG plays a lot of hands and is a calling station--folds to turn and river bets often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever seen the guy raise?? What hands do you think that you can beat do you think he will call with on the river? Do you think he can fold a better hand than yours in this position?

With the way the hand was played he may well have a less-than-the-nut flush or a J with a less-than-top kicker. Both the turn card and the river card also greatly diminished your pot equity and your chances against a loose passive player. You have the possibility of a flush connecting on the turn and two pair on the river (as many micro players with continue with Ax if x hits the flop and we all know they love to play A rag).

The only reason I see to bet the river is if you have enough hope that you can fold one of his weaker (but winning) holdings. You don't have a bet strictly for value here.

BTW - If MP1 holds good cards when he puts money in pre-flop, wtf are you doing cold calling with 88?? Folding, even reraising (if you can get heads-up by folding UTG) is better. A cold call here with 88 is just throwing money away IMHO.
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:34 AM
sean c sean c is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

Hi ajm i think your call of the raise from the big blind is fine i would have gone for a flop check/raise though.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2005, 10:49 AM
Aviston Aviston is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

Preflop: I'm folding 88 here. WIth your read on MP1 you are at best playing against two overcards. This is fine and dandy if you can get the hand HU. However, since UTG is already in, and as you say, is a calling station, the odds of a preflop 3bet folding him are slim.

Flop: As played, I'm checking with the intention of raising MP1's continuation bet. At this point I'd love to send two to UTG in the hopes I can have this hand HU on the turn.

River: Nasty card. You've stated that UTG is a calling station but folds to turn and river bets. I'd be willing to say that he'll be folding if he doesn't have a piece of the board, meaning that a bet here doesn't really seem to be for value. I'm checking here and calling only if you think he is capable of bluffing at the pot.
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2005, 11:56 AM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

I don't see much value in betting. Is a worse hand than yours going to call? I'd probably check/call and hope Villian wasn't hanging in there with an ace.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:02 PM
sean c sean c is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

Wow i am just suprised to hear that anyone on this forum would actually consider folding this pre flop. I wouldn't fold any pocket pair here getting 5.5:1 if UTG calls the raise. I would consider 3-betting if i felt there was a strong chance it get me heads up but given the player read on UTG i doubt he is folding so i would call and check/raise a favorable flop which you got in this hand. Folding any pocket pair here from the big blind is just terrible IMO.
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:04 PM
numeri numeri is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: I'm folding 88 here. WIth your read on MP1 you are at best playing against two overcards. This is fine and dandy if you can get the hand HU. However, since UTG is already in, and as you say, is a calling station, the odds of a preflop 3bet folding him are slim.

[/ QUOTE ]
We have 4.5:1 odds immediate, and probably 5.5:1 since UTG will likely call the raise. We need 7.5:1 for our set. Do you think we can get an extra 1BB postflop if we hit an 8?
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:17 PM
gopnik gopnik is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

if you are going to call a river bet than bet and fold to a raise. By check/calling you let him bet hands that beat you and check behind hands that you beat.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2005, 02:15 PM
Aviston Aviston is offline
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Default Re: How aggressive is too aggressive?

Meh, it was first thing in the morning when I read this; I didn't even realize we were in the BB. Forgive me, calling is the correct play.
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