2 Hands - 2 Mistakes?

Festus22 · #1 08-11-2004, 06:49 AM

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button folds.

River: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

The turn call had to be a major whiff - I actually swore right after I did it. Everyone agree or is it closer than I'm thinking?

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes $0.25 (All-In), BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (8 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I thought the turn bet was marginal enough since now I am behind both the top and bottom flop pair. My question is the river check. Another whiff?

chief444 · #2 08-11-2004, 07:29 AM

Festus,

I think the biggest mistake is not raising pf in hand 2 with two loose limpers and a CO poster.

Hand 1 I would raise the turn but I believe it's closer than you think.

Hand 2 the river check seems close as well. You should have heard from an 8 on the turn so that really only leaves 3 K's to worry about.

Festus22 · #3 08-11-2004, 08:05 AM

QJs is not a monster especially in MP. I'd raise a significant portion of the time in LP after limpers but I'm not too sure before that - I'm inclined not to. Interesting thought though, maybe others can chime in on it.

chief444 · #4 08-11-2004, 08:15 AM

Festus,

The biggest problem I had with limping with it here is that you have a CO poster, although I would typically raise here regardless.

papawawa · #5 08-11-2004, 09:19 AM

Hand 1-
I don't think the turn call is horrible as it allows the possibility of overcalls, I have a feeling those other two behind would've folded. Plus, UTG+2 betting out might mean he's got the flush, so you don't wanna overextend yourself here.
Hand 2- What makes you think you are beat here? They didn't play you back at all. Granted the possibility they have you beat is decent; however you should rely on your read of the player to make your decision. Are they calling stations that would call, but not bet with any piece of the flop? If so, I agree with your action. However if they are anything else I would bet out this river (maybe they have the same hand as you w/a lower kicker?).

Rico Suave · #6 08-11-2004, 09:40 AM

Chief:

[ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest mistake is not raising pf in hand 2 with two loose limpers and a CO poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not raise in this spot, but I am not as aggressive as some preflop. I do not think raising is a mistake, but I do not think just limping is a mistake. Like Festus, I generally reserve my raise for hands like QJs, KTs, and JTs, for lp. (not always, but usually) In addtion, I think the presence of a poster diminishes the chances of buying the button.

I really have no math to back up my statement, just a personal preference--I really like to have position to play my suited connector hands aggressively. I am willing to consider that QJs is strong enough in a spot like this that not raising is a mistake, like you suggest.

--Rico

chief444 · #7 08-11-2004, 09:48 AM

Thanks for the response Rico. I was also interested to here what some others thought of raising vs. limping there. You know how I am...raise..raise...and raise. I don't know when I went from weak/tight to LAG but I certainly find LAG far more enjoyable. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I agree the presence of the CO poster makes buying the button unlikely but I also think the poster makes raising a better option, as I said. But obviously I agree that position can be very important with QJs so I understand where you and Festus are coming from.