i open limped on the button

[sthief09]

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I fold. The hand sucks 3 handed.

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its not a great hand, but its a pair, and i am against straightforward, loose opponents

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first of all, its going to be very easy to read their hands.

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This, I don't get at all. You might know when they have top pair, but that's about it.

I see the hand going check, check, bet...call, call on at least the flop and turn.

How will you ever know when they have TPWK, MP, BP, a low PP like 33, 44 etc., or pair the turn?

I'm not sure how easy it will be to read this hand.

[sthief09]

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[ QUOTE ]
first of all, its going to be very easy to read their hands.

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This, I don't get at all. You might know when they have top pair, but that's about it.

I see the hand going check, check, bet...call, call on at least the flop and turn.

How will you ever know when they have TPWK, MP, BP, a low PP like 33, 44 etc., or pair the turn?

I'm not sure how easy it will be to read this hand.

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if they both call i check the turn and fold the river. if one calls i bet the turn and check the river unless i have reason to believe he has and will call with A high. and ill usually fold if one of them bets. pretty simple, no?

In practice, it's not that simple, but you can try. Lemme know the results after you do it 50,000 times. I'm curious too.

[Lmn55d]

you make some good points. I guess my claim was that sb will fold often enough that the value of getting it headsup x% of the time for 1.5 more sb (4.5 sb pot as opposed to 2.5) offsets the advantages you describe. How often do you think that particular sb folds?

[Entity]

I like it Josh. I do this against these sorts of opponents with a decent range.

Rob

[baronzeus]

i think the EV difference between limping and raising here is tiny...but if you can get rid of SB i'd rather raise, as others have said

edit: it seems like you cant get rid of either one at all, ever. if this is the case then limping is right, but you're gonna have to fire one on the flop and the turn if they check to you regardless, so i still don't think it makes much of a difference.

[wdcbooks]

I fold, and I am not sure I understand the arguments for anything else. It seems clear that you don't have enough equity against two random hands to limp. It also seems clear that these players will not be folding any pair against you. There are many hands to come and you will have many chances to take advantage of these players.

I see a very high danger that you will feel lost against these players on each street. You could bet all three streets and get called on the flop and turn by everything from a gutshot, to overcards, to top pair. You have no hope of knowing where you stand unless they both fold, or they raise, neither of which is likely. Players with those stats aren't going to fold many flops either. I would say that more than half the time they will find a reason to peel, even if you bet the flop.

Raising is better as you have some chance to eliminate the SB and you gain the presumption that you have the best hand. Perhaps more importantly raising buys you the ace. Even the dimmest bulbs (especially the dimmest bulbs) of the poker world defer to the raiser if an ace flops. They might even fold bottom pair.

Calling would be my last choice.

[ggbman]

I fold or raise preflop. i will attempt more analysis when i am less crunked ot who ever you speell it.

Meh.

What flop could possibly come that you'll be happy with? Against LPs, what are the chances one of the two villains wont be there at showdown? Will your pocket ducks be good at showdown?

I fold this always.