KQs at Ultimate Bet... how'd i play it?

thesanch · #1 08-20-2004, 08:53 PM

Ultimate Bet 0.01/0.02 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.01.
UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB (poster) checks, Hero checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (10 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 14 BB, between CO, Hero and UTG.

The river raise threw me for a loop...

rigoletto · #2 08-20-2004, 09:34 PM

Raise preflop! You have a good hand that can flop a monster, so with this many callers you should raise it up.

I don't like the river bet. The 8 could have helped someone and the flush could be out there. Only bet here if you think you can confidently fold to a raise.

W. Deranged · #3 08-20-2004, 09:51 PM

Sanch,

There are a few things to think about one this hand.

1. Your pre-flop play is fine. I don't necessarily think you should raise out of the big blind with this hand. It is a very strong hand and has some "big pot" potential if you hit a flush or straight, but more often than not you will be playing a pair of kings or a pair of queens. You will likely be up against a bunch of aces and some pairs, so you don't have such a huge advantage that you want to be putting in extra money without more info, as you can see the flop for free. (Some will tell you not to raise out of the big blind with anything but AA or KK; this is too tight, but you get the idea).

2. This is the perfect flop to check-raise. In fact, it doesn't get much better. You HAVE to check-raise here. You are out of position, and, unless you have some reason to suspect no one will bet this flop, you will probably do better to check-raise and charge the flush draws even more money to see the turn.

3. You should be out the turn. Sure, someone might have made the flush, in which case you'll probably get raised and you'll have a better idea of where your at. But, often, the flush is not there, and you risk giving a single big diamond a free chance to beat you (you really want the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to pay a lot!).

4. If you check the turn, I don't really see the rationale for betting the river. If you were to have bet the turn and were raised, then you should check the river. If you bet the turn and are not raised, you should bet the river again with some confidence.

So, the best line is: check-raise the flop, bet the turn, then call a raise and check the flop, or bet the river if you don't get raised on the turn.

DeathDonkey · #4 08-22-2004, 07:31 PM

I raise preflop here every time, but I won't argue to hard against those who just check. Since you checked, I would have gone for a check-raise on the flop, as one of your seven(!) opponenents will definitely bet at this. Had I raised preflop, I would of course bet the flop.

You really have to bet the turn here...I thought when you checked you were going for a check-raise, which would probably be a bad choice.

Since you checked the turn, why did you bet out on the river? It doesn't matter how you actually played this hand, but your thought process matters a whole lot...WHY did you check the turn? WHY did you bet the river? Understanding WHY you should be making these decisions will lead to making the best decisions.

-DeathDonkey

Greg J · #5 08-22-2004, 07:41 PM

hey sanch welcome to the boards.

Congrats on your SF on your other hand! I still have never gotten one. Oh well.

It seems from both hands you have posted your preflop play needs some work. On your other hand JTo in EP should be folded. On this hand you should definately raise.

Also, on this hand I cannot figure out why you did not bet out on the turn.

Keep posting here and you playing and you will get better!

Where do you plan on "moving up" to after UB .01/.02?

Greg J · #6 08-22-2004, 07:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1. Your pre-flop play is fine. I don't necessarily think you should raise out of the big blind with this hand. It is a very strong hand and has some "big pot" potential if you hit a flush or straight, but more often than not you will be playing a pair of kings or a pair of queens. You will likely be up against a bunch of aces and some pairs, so you don't have such a huge advantage that you want to be putting in extra money without more info, as you can see the flop for free.

[/ QUOTE ]
I could not disagree more. No offense, but this is weak tight thinking. This is a preflop raise everyday and twice on thursdays.

[ QUOTE ]
2. This is the perfect flop to check-raise. In fact, it doesn't get much better. You HAVE to check-raise here. You are out of position, and, unless you have some reason to suspect no one will bet this flop, you will probably do better to check-raise and charge the flush draws even more money to see the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree again. Unless you have a read on a player that someone will bet (ie someone is a maniac postflop), you cant be sure ANYONE will bet. Why risk giving a free card to someone with T9, who might otherwise fold to a bet? Fancy play might be fun, but Dick and Jane poker wins more money in the long run. His flop play was good.

cartoonsoldier · #7 08-22-2004, 09:16 PM

Checking with KQo is fine IMO, but KQs does very good in mutliway pots and raising is a very good idea.

thesanch · #8 08-23-2004, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hey sanch welcome to the boards.

Congrats on your SF on your other hand! I still have never gotten one. Oh well.

It seems from both hands you have posted your preflop play needs some work. On your other hand JTo in EP should be folded. On this hand you should definately raise.

Also, on this hand I cannot figure out why you did not bet out on the turn.

Keep posting here and you playing and you will get better!

Where do you plan on "moving up" to after UB .01/.02?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks!

I plan on making at least 12.50 in profit at the penny
tables. Then I'll hit up the 0.25/0.50 tables there. or maybe some on party poker.. dont really know.

I couldn't tell you why I checked the turn and bet the river. As you can see i'm a little inconsistent with my betting.

And i'm sure i'll get better, just hope i have enough time to play with school starting up...

thesanch · #9 08-23-2004, 03:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Checking with KQo is fine IMO, but KQs does very good in mutliway pots and raising is a very good idea.

[/ QUOTE ] I ment to raise pre-flop but i clicked the wrong button... DOH!

Nemesis · #10 08-23-2004, 04:05 AM

Raising preflop is mandatory, with this many people limping they have bad hands. You get such a large pot equity by raising this preflop it is costing you a lot of money by not. Assuming you'd preflop raised i go for a check raise on the flop because you can't protect your hand any other way, letting it check through would be unfortunate, but so would not protecting your hand. Bet again when the flush card hits, the more than likely don't have it, and a call means nothing, a raise does be careful if MP2 raises. The same goes for the river card, all of these are scary, but none of your opponents have told you that you're beat.