|
|
#241
11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
The thing is, as stated in the original problem, the runway speeds up to compensate for the extra +x force. [/ QUOTE ] But that's the issue here, CAN the runway compensate for the thrust of the engines? Imagine the wheels are frictionless, and the conveyor belt is spinning backwards at 100 mph and the plane is just sitting there, engines at idle. The conveyor belt has no effect on the plane and therefore has no way to counteract the thrust of the plane. Of course in the real world there is friction in the wheels and the conveyor belt will exert a small rearward force, but it will never be enough to counteract the thrust of the plane. 
|
|
#242
11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
Is this close to getting wrapped up with a nice little bow? Apparently there are no more diagrams coming and my head hurts.
|
|
#243
11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The thing is, as stated in the original problem, the runway speeds up to [/ QUOTE ] Wait, you understand this point and still think it can't take off? Holy hell. Edited for clarity [/ QUOTE ] OK I will spell it out. Wheels moving in X with tangential velocity V. Runway moving in X with -V. Plane is stationary to observor (the atmosphere). Engines apply force in +X which translates to increased wheel speed. Plane is now moving in X with velocity (V + Vfromengine) Runway speeds up to move in X with velocity -(V + Vfromengine) Plane is still stationary to observor(the atmosphere). Plane does not take off.
|
|
#244
11-23-2005, 04:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The thing is, as stated in the original problem, the runway speeds up to [/ QUOTE ] Wait, you understand this point and still think it can't take off? Holy hell. Edited for clarity [/ QUOTE ] OK I will spell it out. Wheels moving in X with tangential velocity V. Runway moving in X with -V. Plane is stationary to observor (the atmosphere). Engines apply force in +X which translates to increased wheel speed. Plane is moving in X with velocity (V + Vfromengine) Runway speeds up to move in X with velocity -(V + Vfromengine) Plane is still stationary to observor(the atmosphere). Plane does not take off. [/ QUOTE ] The bold part is incorrect.
|
|
#245
11-23-2005, 04:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
OK I will spell it out. [/ QUOTE ] Please check your spelling and get back to us. I am starting to think you are trolling.
|
|
#246
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Of course the plane has to be moving relative to the air around it (or the ground if that makes it easier). [/ QUOTE ] this is it, you need wind over the wings for lift!! a plane cannot get in the air without lift! wtf, i can't believe noone gets this [/ QUOTE ] Please explain specifically what FORCE is stopping the plane from moving forward (relative to the atmosphere, NOT the conveyor belt). [/ QUOTE ] isn't the whole premise of this post is that the plane isn't moving? [/ QUOTE ] I just skimmed this thread. The issue isn't whether or not the plane is moving on the runway. It's about whether or not air is moving across the plane's wings. [/ QUOTE ] thats exactly what im basing my arguement on; if the plane isn't moving relative to the atmosphere, the plane doesn't take off....game over [/ QUOTE ] While it is completely true that there is no lift if the plane isn't moving relative to the atmosphere, you've made quite an incrorrect assumption that the plane is not moving relative to the atmosphere. [/ QUOTE ] thats the whole point of the conveyer belt....it stops the plane from going anywhere....you obviously don't move relative to the atmosphere when youre running on a treadmill, right? thats the whole point of a treadmill, so you can run WITHOUT MOVING.
|
|
#247
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
Is this close to getting wrapped up with a nice little bow? Apparently there are no more diagrams coming and my head hurts. [/ QUOTE ] I have to wait for Ray's permission to unleash the full fury on you guys. In the mean time, I've got actual rocket science work to do, so I'm going to have to let this thread go for a while. I can't keep up with it. Let there be no doubt, though, the plane can take off. For all you retards out there who can't grasp this, think of the babystroller on the moving walkway example provided a while ago (was it 4_2_it or crazyeyes? I don't remember, sorry). It is a very good analogy and shows exactly what's going on here, sans lifting wings.
|
|
#248
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Is this close to getting wrapped up with a nice little bow? Apparently there are no more diagrams coming and my head hurts. [/ QUOTE ] I have to wait for Ray's permission to unleash the full fury on you guys. In the mean time, I've got actual rocket science work to do, so I'm going to have to let this thread go for a while. I can't keep up with it. Let there be no doubt, though, the plane can take off. For all you retards out there who can't grasp this, think of the babystroller on the moving walkway example provided a while ago (was it 4_2_it or crazyeyes? I don't remember, sorry). It is a very good analogy and shows exactly what's going on here, sans lifting wings. [/ QUOTE ] PLEASE dont do any rocket science work until you realize why the plane wont take off.
|
|
#249
11-23-2005, 04:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Is this close to getting wrapped up with a nice little bow? Apparently there are no more diagrams coming and my head hurts. [/ QUOTE ] I have to wait for Ray's permission to unleash the full fury on you guys. In the mean time, I've got actual rocket science work to do, so I'm going to have to let this thread go for a while. I can't keep up with it. Let there be no doubt, though, the plane can take off. For all you retards out there who can't grasp this, think of the babystroller on the moving walkway example provided a while ago (was it 4_2_it or crazyeyes? I don't remember, sorry). It is a very good analogy and shows exactly what's going on here, sans lifting wings. [/ QUOTE ] In this case, as stated in original problem, the speed of the moving walkway is VARIABLE.
|
|
#250
11-23-2005, 04:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Physics graduate from Daryn\'s alma mater\'s answer
[ QUOTE ]
thats the whole point of a treadmill, so you can run WITHOUT MOVING. [/ QUOTE ] Now throw rollerskates on and use the handles to pull yourself forward.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
