Mirage 20-40: Play This Hand Against Me

Dynasty · #1 04-22-2004, 02:07 AM

I think this Mirage 20-40 hand played shortly after midnight on Tuesday night/Wednesday morning is more interesting from my opponent's perspective so I'll present it that way.

The game was fantastic- one of the best 20-40 games I can remember in quite a while with 6-8 players routinely seeing the flop, usually for one bet.

The Hero of this hand is probably the toughest opponent at the table. He can definitely beat this table and can probably hold his own in a semi-tough 20-40 game. He's obviously read some good poker literature.

The hand:

The first few players uncharacteristically fold to Hero in MP. Hero raises with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. A weak, overly-loose player on his immediate left cold-calls. I'm next to act and 3-bet. Everybody else folds back to Hero who calls. Weak player also calls. Three players see the flop for three bets each.

The flop is: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks. Weak player bets. I call. Hero check-raises. Weak player calls. I call. Three players see the turn with 8.25 big bets in the pot.

The turn is: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets. Weak player calls. I raise.

Where do you stand? And, what's your play?

Diplomatdcm · #2 04-22-2004, 02:20 AM

I would call and check call the river. It looks like I am beat but the pot is now big enough that I think you need to call down.

Your Mom · #3 04-22-2004, 02:20 AM

Because of the presence of the weak player, it is unlikely you are putting a move on him. You've 3 bet preflop and now raised the turn. It's looking like a big pair from you, Dynasty. I'd fold, but maybe you are trickier in this spot than I think.

Jamie Collins · #4 04-22-2004, 02:31 AM

Hello Dynasty,
I would take the Jim Brier line on this one:

I would fold. If I'm ahead with JJ there are a lot of cards that could make the loose player's hand or your hand on the river. And it doesn't seem very likely you would play AQ/AK/10-10/8-8 this way. If I'm behind I'm drawing pretty slim and there are only 12.25 BB's in the pot if I added correctly. I would estimate there is only a 10% chance JJ is good here, unless you're a lot looser than I thought.

Regards,
Jamie

bernie · #5 04-22-2004, 02:39 AM

Your turn raise isnt facing the stronger players with 2 bets. He knows the weak player isnt likely to raise behind him. So it could be seen as a value bet by you with a higher pair.

Although...

With the weak player in, it's a good time to try and put a move on to get the other player out and be HU with a drawing weaker player while getting a possibly better hand out.

It reminds me of a concept in HEPFAP, though im not sure if you're using it here. (keeping a weaker player in to get a better player out) So, like a slot machine, id call and pay off 1 bet on the river.

Lastly, if, as the opponent i knew you had this image of me, id suspect your preflop 3 bet is a very tight 3 bet. But since i didnt cap preflop maybe you're not putting me on AA or KK. So a move on the turn can represent it.

b

China Willy · #6 04-22-2004, 03:01 AM

If I'm this guy and I have any kind of line on your play I three-bet this. I don't know what hand you want to play slow on the flop given this board and the PF action, and I think you're making a play to get HU against the poor player. If you have something like 99 and/or you continue this line of play by 4-betting to get me to fold a better hand than yours, more power to you. I'm three-betting here.

-CW

China Willy · #7 04-22-2004, 03:17 AM

Right, but do you think he would play AA-QQ the way he describes? Especially not QQ, given that he would want to drive out AK if the solid initial raiser holds overcards. I think Dynasty has narrowed the other fella's hand to TT or JJ or QQ and he *either* has AA *or* is trying to get heads up against the weak player with a worse hand than JJ.

I think its the latter.

-CW

Clarkmeister · #8 04-22-2004, 04:15 AM

"Play this hand against me."

I 3-bet. Calling has to be the worst of the options.

China Willy · #9 04-22-2004, 05:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Play this hand against me."

I 3-bet. Calling has to be the worst of the options.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unquestionably.

Steve Giufre · #10 04-22-2004, 05:42 AM

This one is tough. I think it would depend on wether or not I thought you were capable of 3 betting preflop with 88. If not, then I might let it go. The only hands he can really beat are 88 and 10 10. Although its possible for you to have AK or AQ of clubs, I dont think you can raise the turn with either of these hands because of the presence of the bad player. So your hand has to have some showdown value agaist the other (weak) player because there is a decent chance he's gonna call down with something like A9. So I've got to give you a real pair here. Knowing that you may try to get me off my hand with 10 10, calling, or 3 betting the turn and checking the river seem reasonable. I think you might also play 88 like this for similar reasons, but If I dont feel you are capable of 3 betting that preflop, I might consider folding since 10 10 would then be the only hand I could logically put you on that I beat. All things considered, I think 3 betting the turn and checking the river might be the best option. Interesting hand.