Calling a flop bet with a small pocket pair

[hbgolfpro]

I am a successful $20-$40 player but the one situation that I am curious about is calling a flop bet with a small pocket pair. I am not speaking of calling with a dangerous flop such as a straight or flush on board...or if one of my outs will put such a dangerous hand on board. Lets say I am on the button and the pot is raised and I get 5 callers. I also expect one of the blinds to come also. If I dont fear a re raise I will call with say a pair of fours...obviously trying to hit my set. I am getting 6 to 1 odds on a 7.5 to 1 proposition...but the implied payoff allows me to make that call. If I hit my set it is probably good nite for the rest of the field. So that being said...lets assume the flop comes A-8-5.....all mixed suits. Lets also assume there is a bet and three callers before me....my question is now can I call? I know I am a 22.5 to 1 dog to catch a 4 ON THE TURN ONLY. Also I am not speaking about times when I feel there is a bluff or that my hand is good. I mean PURELY MATHEMATICALLY SPEAKING.......must I fold a small pair everytime there is a bet on the flop and I didnt hit my set? Must I fold it....or am I leaving too much on the table?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a successful $20-$40 player but the one situation that I am curious about is calling a flop bet with a small pocket pair. I am not speaking of calling with a dangerous flop such as a straight or flush on board...or if one of my outs will put such a dangerous hand on board. Lets say I am on the button and the pot is raised and I get 5 callers. I also expect one of the blinds to come also. If I dont fear a re raise I will call with say a pair of fours...obviously trying to hit my set. I am getting 6 to 1 odds on a 7.5 to 1 proposition...but the implied payoff allows me to make that call. If I hit my set it is probably good nite for the rest of the field. So that being said...lets assume the flop comes A-8-5.....all mixed suits. Lets also assume there is a bet and three callers before me....my question is now can I call? I know I am a 22.5 to 1 dog to catch a 4 ON THE TURN ONLY. Also I am not speaking about times when I feel there is a bluff or that my hand is good. I mean PURELY MATHEMATICALLY SPEAKING.......must I fold a small pair everytime there is a bet on the flop and I didnt hit my set? Must I fold it....or am I leaving too much on the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it difficult to believe that a "successful" 20-40 player wrote this post.

[The Great One]

Hey Chesspain...why the rude comment?

[The Great One]

I will try to answer your question without the rudeness of Chesspain. If you had 6 people in the pot with you pre flop for two bets each, and three callers before you on the flop, that gives you about 17 to 1 for your money at that moment. If you are 22.5 to 1 as you said, then the choice as to whether to carry on or fold becomes clear. Making that call is a sure fire chip burner.

[glen]

you are so obviously hbgolfpro it's not even funny. . .

[chesspain]

Dear The Great One/hbgolfpro,

You demonstrated in your response to rigoletto's AQo post that you are able to regurgitate quite well what you have read in HEFAP. However, I am incredulous that if you are truly a "successful 20-40 player" that you would have asked such a basic question, unless you just wanted to see your name in print, since you then answered your own basic question while posting under a new name.

That's your one mulligan.

[fsuplayer]

...But for the rest of us aspiring $20/40 players, (because of BR I am still in the $4/8 and $5/10 games), can someone provide some real insight on this question?
Are the implied odds enough to call the flop?
I seem to remember a malmuth essay that says they are high enough if your outs are clean.
Thanks for the info,
FsuPlayer

[The Great One]

You are truly amazing! You do not know me or anything about me and yet you assume that I am posting on this site under two different names. And then you top it off by saying that I "regurgitate" what I have read! I suggest you get to know someone before you make such idiotic statements. And one last thing... I play virtually every single day against some damned good competition. The card rooms here in the Los Angeles area need no introduction. I realize that Hollywood Park, The Bicycle Club and Commerce cant possibly touch the caliber of card rooms in New Hampshire.....but we do our best.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
You are truly amazing! You do not know me or anything about me and yet you assume that I am posting on this site under two different names.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see...The Great One had in his personal info that he hails from Hermosa Beach, CA, although he just quickly changed it to Manhattan Beach, whereas the original poster's handle is hbgolfpro.

Sigh [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[The Great One]

You are correct. I did change it. For the very reason to stop people like you from assuming such. Get out a map and look at the proximity of Hermosa Beach and Manhattan Beach. They are one in the same. Maybe you should email HBGolfPro and ask them who they are and where they are from. And finally.....once more.....I play against great players daily. I put my money on the table where it counts. I dont "regurgitate" some book to impress somebody. When you make the trip out here from New Hampshire and can win as I do then you can tell me how to play poker. Until then, you stick to posting emails on a web site and leave playing the game to me.