Mirage 20-40: Play This Hand Against Me

[Luke]

Hero raises with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. A weak, overly-loose player on his immediate left cold-calls. I'm next to act and 3-bet. Everybody else folds back to Hero who calls. Weak player also calls.

Tommy:
I think the hero should have reraised or folded before the flop, either way making the hand a lot easier to play I think.

Tommy, did you read the thread right? Are you saying Hero should 4-bet or fold his jacks? That just seems wrong.

Luke

[Dynasty]

Hero called with his JJ and the MP weak player called as well. Three players saw the turn with 14.25 big bets in the pot.

The river is: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checked. MP checked. I bet. Hero called. MP called with his last chips.

I showed K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and took the pot. MP inexplicably showed K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Hero seemed very upset with himself after this hand. He took a walk right after this hand, missing three free hands. I guess he figured he had an easy fold on the turn and was upset that he didn't make it.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I've played with him a lot more anyone else on the forum, and I am definitively stating that 3-betting is the best play against him here. You aren't giving him enough credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was definitely an ideal opportunity to make a bluff turn raise with an unimproved AK. The situation was perfect.

1. I 3-bet pre-flop.
2. The MP was clearly on draw
3. Hero is capable of hand reading and might laydown a hand.

If I had AK in that spot, I suspect I would have used the play.

Strangely, my turn play was standard and it was actually my flop play which was somewhat unconventional. With Hero not 4-betting pre-flop, I absolutely eliminated AA and KK from his holdings. So, when the flop came 9,7,6, I decided to misrepresent my hand there. By just calling the weak MP's bet, it looked like I had missed the flop.

I wanted to see if Hero would check-raise after seeing me only call. A check-raise would almost certainly mean and overpair of QQ, JJ, or TT. When he did, I knew exactly where he was.

Hero almost did fold on the turn. I guess he just wasn't confident enough in his read.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Do what you can to just call on the flop, then raise 2 guys on the turn. I think I lay down a couple kings here, expecting to see aces a bazillion percent of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you've got JJ, you'll see AA/KK/QQ 18 times out of 34 times. The other 16 out of 34 times, you'll see AK.

So, it's basically a 50/50 proposition. How do you want to play against that?

[Jamie Collins]

Hello Dynasty,

An overpair is what I put you on but the better posters convinced me you could definitely be making a play at this pot with 10-10 or Ak/q of clubs.

But like I said in a post, if Mr. JJ had folded and you showed down 10-10 or Ak/q you couldn't get him to fold a better hand for a month.

So now the opposite is true: if you played the hand again later, then raising the turn with 10-10 or Ak/q would be much more likely to get him to fold JJ. Despite the fact you had KK, this thread helped me to realize that I need to think on higher levels and stay one step ahead of my opponent.

Something that usually isn't required in on-line mid-limits.

Regards,
Jamie

[Softrock]

But you see this is the beauty of being a good player. Opponents know you're capable of making a move so they are confused. Does he really have a hand that big or is he making a move? It may well be a weakness in my play but in this sort of situation I would rarely lay down JJ with that board and I would be too afraid of being outplayed to 3-bet the turn against someone like Dynasty.

Here's my question - given our knowledge that Dynasty is quite capable of making a move here how do you decide when or if to fold JJ?

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I need to think on higher levels and stay one step ahead of my opponent.

Something that usually isn't required in on-line mid-limits.


[/ QUOTE ]

u right. not required

[talkinghead]

[ QUOTE ]

Dynasty is likely thinking hero has a pair under aa or kk, as stated.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Dynasty's point of view there is a far wider range of hands that this guy could be playing than just pocket pairs, ok we know he's pocket jacks but he could have a hand like KQs and his check raise on the flop was to put pressure on dynasty's probable AKo(s). Hoping that it was dynasty who put in the flop bet so his raise could have a greater chance of forcing the middle player out. Dynasty (IMHO) doen't just need AKs and four flush to make this play, just AK, so I'm definately in the three bet camp.

[talkinghead]

Hadn't read the resolution when I posted that, if i was hero i'd be upset with myself at calling though. With the Kings would dynasty have four bet a three bet?
If he does I lay it down.
Although in the three bet camp myself, perhaps in the heat of the moment i would have folded, the reason being the game was lucrative with one other good player, i'm choosing not to get involved with him if i can help it but concentrate on the fishies.

[Clarkmeister]

"This was definitely an ideal opportunity to make a bluff turn raise with an unimproved AK. The situation was perfect.

1. I 3-bet pre-flop.
2. The MP was clearly on draw
3. Hero is capable of hand reading and might laydown a hand.

If I had AK in that spot, I suspect I would have used the play"

I have no doubt you would have made that play. What I think many people in here are missing is that #2 is the key factor here.