Keeping my own game alive

[dfscott]

I've been running a weekly $10 buy-in limit ring game at my house for some time. Around 6-10 people show up -- some good players, bad players, and really bad players. However, since it's limit, the money would get spread around fairly liberally.

A couple of months ago, we started losing players. In order to spice things up, we decided to turn it into a weekly single-table no-limit tournament. Everyone seems to really enjoy the action. However, the bad players win rates (as expected) are really starting to suffer. The first night, the two total rookies finished 1st and 2nd, but since then, I've won every game except for one where I finished second to another good player. We've only played this way for 6 weeks, but that's still a decent amount of time for the fish to come up dry.

There was another thread about this a while back where everyone said "don't worry, even good players will lose soon enough," but I'm not so sure that's the case. For example, here's an early hand from last night:

Stacks are all pretty much even -- 6 players limp to the flop.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

one fishy player bets 1/4 pot, gets 2 fishy callers.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

same player makes another small bet, both players call

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

same player goes all-in for about 3 times the pot (she has the other two covered), the other two both call.

better turns over Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
first caller turns over K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
overcaller turns over J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

You can see why it's so easy to just wait for premium hands, push and get called with junk.

I really enjoy playing, so I don't want to run everyone off. So, without trying to sound too arrogant, I need to figure out a way to not win so much. Actually throwing games isn't an option because a) I won't have fun not playing my best and b) that just means the other good players will win more. I'm not playing to make money (I play online for that) -- I play for the fun of playing. That said, I play for the fun of winning as well.

FWIW, no one has complained (and I certainly haven't published a leader board or any stats to indicate how things are going). Also, last night was our biggest tourney yet (10 players and 3 re-buys), so it doesn't seem like people are leaving, but I'm wondering how long people are going to be willing to continue to donate their $10 without getting anything back.

One possibility I've considered is changing the payout structure. Right now, we only pay the top 3, which is pretty standard, I think. What about making it easier to get into the money? For example, a 50-25-15-10 or maybe even a 40-25-20-10-5 structure?

Any other thoughts on how to make the game more fun and keep the players coming back?

Should I just not worry about this? I don't want to wait until people start complaining because I don't think they will -- I think they'll just stop showing up because it won't seem fun anymore. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[grandgnu]

It seems the only one concerned is you, at least right now. You have to understand that a lot of these players just like the action. They actually don't care if they win or lose, especially with a $10 buy-in.

They just want to move all-in and maybe win a BIG pot. And if they lose they can rebuy. I have a couple of new players who came to my $50 buy-in event (no rebuys) and their take on it was "hey, it's only 100 bucks, no big deal" (they're a couple). They play TERRIBLE and don't mind losing the 100 bucks, so that's cool with me.

The most important thing with those players is making them feel welcome and entertained. Do everything you can to congratulate them when their poor play pays off "wow Joe, only a pro could pull off a hand like that, nice job and just LOOK at that pot!"

In my experience, if someone isn't happy when they're playing, they're going to voice it quite a bit.

[dfscott]

Thanks, I was wondering if I was worrying about nothing -- sounds like I might be.

I played a hand against the aforementioned J7o player where she called my button raise of A3o with J8o, putting her all-in. She rivered a Jack for the win and everyone congratulated her on her double-up (not to mention the good-natured ribbing I received for playing A-rag).

I've found that regular breaks seem to help, because everyone likes to chat about their hands or non-poker stuff as well. We've tweaked the blinds several times and now we have it where everyone gets to play at least an hour and a 1/2 (sometimes by re-buying). It seems to work well, so maybe I should just let sleeping dogs lie.

Thanks.

[grandgnu]

Yeah, those loose players can really bust your nuts sometimes, but they're good for your profit in the long run.

Got one kid who seems to love playing any high card with any low card (J/5, Q/4, K/2, etc.) I had raised with A/10 pre-flop (3x the BB) and he called with J/5 and the flop was 5/A/5. Needless to say I got my butt handed to me that hand.

In another hand he stuck around with a K/8 ("it was suited, I HAD to call") Then I've got some people from my work I practice with (some have attended events, some haven't) and they'll call your all-ins pre-flop with 6/2 and crap like that. They just love the action. They never want to fold, they want to be in it. Enjoy it and hope they don't become better players. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Penetrater]

I agree with that. I have run a game for several years and usually twice a wekk in winter, and I could call around thirty people to play (I have two tables.) I say it looks good unless a plurality voice complaints man.

[Yawkey]

I don't think you have to worry about this to much dfscott. For most of the players coming to the game, they are coming just to be with their friends for a fun night, it's not about the money. Ten dollars a week is not going to bust anyones bankroll (I play with a bunch of college students with this buy-in and we're all on tight budgets).

What you will eventually see are players improving at a much more rapid pace (give it another month or two and most of your regulars will be fairly solid). The tourny style emphasizes everyones mistakes especially when they bust out as opposed to a limit ring game where mistakes mean you go home with $5 instead of $10. Plus the guys who are consistantly just missing the money will do their homework and step up their game, they will have extra drive to show up next week.

[PhatPots]

I don't think you should worry about it. It is only a $10 buy-in. As long as you don't make the other players look bad and show them a good time, there isn't really a problem.

I actually play a home game $10 NL tourney. We play winner gets everything, except second place gets $10. There are some terrible players. An example of how bad they are would be when one play just calls a small bet on the end when he has the nut flush. I regularly win. I always try and be polite, and courteous and I congratulate the bad players when they do make good plays.