Worst 15$ I Ever Spent

[Penetrater]

I own over 30 books on poker, and I'm always on the lookout for new ones, and my GF buys them for me also. I have come to trust the Cardoza label and I didnt think I could go too far wrong with it. I was wrong.
'Winning Low limit 7 Card Stud' by some no talent ass clown, is the biggest piece of crap ever put in print. Just putting the word out there so that no one else wastes ten bucks on a stack of TP.

[nate1729]

Presumably you're talking about Ashley Adams' book. I'd imagine it might have some usefulness for beginners: plenty of the basic concepts are there and explained correctly. Without a doubt, though, Seven-Card Stud For Advanced Players is miles and miles better, and contains plenty of information on adjusting to a low-limit game (usually just a loose game.) Adams spends too much time giving if-then bullet-point advice, and there's just not the same rigor and depth as you'll find in 7CSFAP. Anyway, newbies in search of a lighter read might find it useful, but with all the other good poker literature out there nobody's missing much without it.

[Penetrater]

Actually, the title is "How to Beat Low Limit 7-Card Stud Poker" by Pual Kammen

[CJC]

Hello,

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there's just not the same rigor and depth as you'll find in 7CSFAP

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7CSFAP is arguably the best book on Stud out there.... however it is also the last book I recomend for a begginner..

CJ

[PoorLawyer]

I leafed through the Kamman book at one point and found it very similar to West. Good for beginners to learn the game and as a quick refresher, but doesnt get you to think about why you do things like TOP and 7CS4AP

[pipes]

7CS4AP was the first book I ever read about stud. While I know its for advanced readers, but I did not have trouble with it. That's probably because I've read Theory of Poker many times though. IMO 7CS4AP is the best book of the Advanced Player Series.

How is Roy West book? Is it worth anything if I already have 7CS4AP?

[jon_1van]

I think an unexperience player can get through any 2+2 book if you are a "math type"

I love all the 2+2 books. The stud book was the first one I ever bought and since I have found none quite as good as the stud book.

But....the other day I saw a guy on the subway reading super system (a book I don't own)...I asked how it was. He said the book was good. Except for some guy named Skly...something...he said that guy used too much math.

While he was bashing DS I just kinda nodded thinking "how can you not like numbers"...but I guess it is all about what works for you.

[Andy B]

Even if you didn't have 7CS4AP, I wouldn't recommend the West book.

[Penetrater]

I have both of Ray Zee's Stud books.

[timmer]

Cool those are good books.

If however you are playing in any B&M card room with a percentage rake those books will be recommending play that is way too loose for the game. For those small games with small antes (small games with tight structures) you must play a much different game.

The above Premis is so because the rake:big bet ratio is so cloes to even.[1] As such most recommendations in regard to "thinning the field" are not correct in these games. Close, heads up hands like Q's, bad kicker vs Js, so so kicker are a disaster because the rake eats up more money than your long run profit with the hand provides. Raising with a weaker hand, to get it heads up, is a total train wreck.
To want it heads with such match ups up you need an overpair and a kickass kicker.

I have my own Ideas how to play mid and even Low pairs And I wont discuss them here. But for the most part SCSFAP will have you playing way way to loose and trying to get it heads up way too often in most any LL stud game with a percentage rake and a small ante.[2]

Remember that heads up the rake on your hand for hand profits ( your opponents losses in a hand)are is twice what the percentage is. for the average pot thats 20%. So unless the average heads up pot maxes the rake you must play hands that have a better than 20% lead or can easily develop one in the early going when its still multiway. Multi way this percentage goes down as more players contribute to the rake. With some study you will see that this is a vicious cycle that simply RAPES your profit margins.

You must be able to: <ul type="square">[*]get your opponent to fold those close hands where he is slightly behind.[*]be aligned against multiple opponents that are willing to keep multi way pots small then fold to your large bet when you make a medium hand such as a split pair(Q's J's T's ect) and an open smaller pair ( as we know these hands dont do so well multiway). and will play and pay if you show some sort of draw on board. Basically terrible players [*]you must be willing to check check or even fold some hands heads up which you are slightly ahead (if you dont have a good redraw)[*]emphasize good kickers and redraws with all hands. and be much more willing to play multiway early.[*] be willing to muck those pair hands even some big pair hands.
as being behind and chasing is sure destructiion.[*]be willing to align yourself against a table full of WEAKER players.[*]be willing to give up easily, heads up against other strong players even if you think your slightly ahead and *implied* edge may be small (even if they dont know this fact)[*] stop playing 3 big card starts on their high card value alone[*] severly limit your play of mid 3 card str8s[/list]limit you draws to what seems to be the best draw and severly limit those you play heads up

(like play no bare draws heads up unless your opponent is to put in multiple bets against a MADE PAT hand. ie the weakerk and loosest opponents)


In short you must have every thing on your side if you want to do well in these games. In fact you should play a bit more tightly than is recommended in a game that features what looks like an overante. That is because this extra money seldom sees your stack. It simply off sets some rake. So in those B&amp;M games with a $.50 ante you should be more willing to play as SCSFAP suggests. and if those games are loose make those adjustments as the loose game section suggests that are appropriate .

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If you are beating LL games, at all, <font color="blue"> [LL casino games with a percentage rake] </font>that <font color="blue"> [in itself] </font> is an accomplishment - David Sklanski

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A high percentage rake screws up Low limit stud so badly I wouldnt Blame any one who chose not to play it at all. Those that do chose to play these games must alter what would be considered good strategy radically is some cases.


timmer

[1] even 1:2 aint so good or a rake max that is half the big bet and is taken as a percentage. The rake has less effect onthese close hands when it is a structured such as $1 @$10, $1@$20, $1@$40, $1@60. but its effect is noticable.
[2] I suggest you play around with a 2 dimes type simulator to discover what type of hands these are, their texture, how those hands do in certain sized pots and against different #'s and types of opponents(turbo 7CS works oOK here) and what types of kickers do well. generally suited, connected, apparent overcards to opponents pair and kicker, A's and K's. I encourage you to take a good look at the liveness of your kickers and secondary outs. As these factors are vital to long range profit in these instances.


timmer



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