Florida casinos

[vox]

I'm posting this as a response to the "ocean jewel" thread, so it doesn't become a total hijack, since it deals with dog tracks and Hard Rocks, not boats.

[ QUOTE ]
man this class 3 thing would be AWESOME for florida... get that damn republican out of office already.... this would make Tampa and Hollywood both class act destinations for poker...

is the "broward" slot machines the normal kinds you find elsewhere in AC and vegas? I thought the slot machines at the Hard Rock Tampa were all tied together or something like that...
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

To answer your question from the other thread, PhatCasino, the reason people say the Seminole machines are all tied in together is because Seminole's players play bingo against one another via these machines - hence, they are playing a Class II game, like bingo or poker, and not Class III house-backed slots. Most players don't pay the bingo portion of the game any mind, and some do and end up with the money.

As to the potential for Class III games in Florida, the Sun-Sentinel (Ft. Lauderdale's newspaper) reported today that the state legislature will convene for a "special session" in October or November to draft rules for the "slot machines" approved by ballot in March.

I put "slot machines" in quotation marks because the debate in Florida has been whether the wording of the law allows for RNG-powered, house-backed slots or video bingo machines with slot "entertainment", like the Seminoles have in their Hard Rock properties.

Of course, the constitutional amendment that allowed for the votes (Miami-Dade County voted against the slots) set a deadline for enactment of slot laws at July 1. That date has come and gone with little fanfare. A Broward judge ruled that the slots were good to go on July 1, but without rules, none of the four authorized pari-mutuels have acted.

Anyway, with the passing of the Broward act, the Seminoles petitioned for negotiations for Class III gaming in March. Bush "opened" negotiations in June, and there's been no reported developments since. Bush has been quoted as entering the negotiations with limiting gambling in mind. Most articles talk about "revenue sharing" as one of the sticking points.

For the record, the federal laws say that the state need not enter into a pact, but only negotiate "in good faith", with the Interior Department taking action of they don't.

In other words, this will take some time. But, unless the anti-gambling legislators win their argument that "slot machine" means "bingo", Florida will get at least two proper casinos - one an hour's drive from Disney World, that already fills 50 tables 7 nights a week with $2 max-bet poker.

[vox]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been following the Class III Slot debate in Broward County and while I am no expert here is my take on the deal.

Broward County's ballot amendment made no metion of class III gaming, voters were only asked to allow slot machines at current paramutuels to help fund schools with new revenue that would come from the tax on the machines. Right now the Jeb Bush administration is dragging its feet in the hopes that No Casino Inc. can get an appeal of the ammendment on the next ballot. An alternative to killing the slot machines is that Bush will approve only class II slots to bring the paramutuels on an even keel with the Seminole and Miccosukee tribes who both currently offer class II gaming with their bingo-based slot machines. This would keep the class III slots out of Florida. As far as class III table games, the initiative was only for slot machines. Even if class III slots are allowed craps, 21, roulette and other house banked table games would still be banned.


What does all that mean for poker in Florida? Nothing really since the state law only allows the current $2.00 max bet games. Allowing class III gaming wouldn't change the current poker limits. The poker laws could be changed without any regard to the slot machine situation. Maybe our next governor (Charlie Crist?) will find it acceptable to increase the bet limits in exchange for the increased tax revenue that would follow the raised limits. I'd be happy to find a 2/4 or 3/6 or maybe even a 1/2 NL $100 or $200 max buy in game at Derby Lane. The paramutuel industry would be happy too.

Also about a Trump casino in Tampa. NO. Trump is pre-selling units in his high-end condo project here in Tampa to be called Trump Tower Tampa.

[/ QUOTE ]


I wrote all that before I saw Atomic's post, but to address it: I like the insight - it's all pretty sad, but true. By and large, it's the No Casinos argument for mitigating the effect of these actions. I'm hardly an expert here, too, just an interested observer reporting what I can.

Note, however, that the Broward referendum didn't say "Class III gaming" because that's the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (25 USC 2701-25) term. Oh, and also the drafters of that amendment had no idea what they were doing.

True, Bush could sign a bill into law, passed by the Florida Legislature, that raises the poker stakes, set by Fl. Stat. 849.086. But I have a better chance of hitting 2 royal flushes back-to-back than living to see that day, I think. I. Nelson Rose seems to have a similar opinion.

The IGRA, however, dictates, as Bush said in June, that "by law, whatever the pari-mutuels get is the floor, not the ceiling, for the tribes." I doubt the Seminoles would sign a compact unless it allowed for no-limit poker and table games. But, you're right, technically, no one has to do anything. In light of the motives of the Seminoles, the concluding of Bush's tenure, the potential for a pro-gambling govenor being elected in 2006 (but not Crist, who has voiced his opposition to gambling), and the public policy shift Bush noted, it very well may.

As for the Trump thing, I did note it was a wholly unsubstiantated rumor. Trump Taj Tampa does have a weird ring to it, though [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

It's good to see another Tampa 2+2er. If you make it out to Hard Rock and play Omaha, I hope I get to say "sup bro" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Etaipo]

Very interesting write up. Thanks for your insight.

[PhatCasino]

thanks for your reply and starting a new thread - firstly i dont ever plan on playing slot machines, but it is good news for all those old people in florida, cuz it'll be a better game for them... what im personally excited about is higher stakes poker... and if im correct - that is tied in with class 3 for indian casinos?

[10-20Jerome]

Florida Casinos suck [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
2 poker with a 5 dollar rake thats a joke [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
I hate to be so negative [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
But the truth the Hard Rock Sucks [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
The dealers cant control the games, they allow table talk, string bets, and they give attiude when you give them a 50cent tip. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Ive seen them pull cards out of the muck, ever time I go there this has happened [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Players telling the whole table dang I folded the and 8 when the flop comes A88 gee thanks buddy! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
All in all the poker room is not run right the dealers are over tipped(like 7 dollars) on a 23 dollar pot. When I lived in AC 50cents to a dollar was standerd in a 20-40 stud game. All that aside the place has great potenteial [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
And the 2 dollar omaha is beatable for aabout 75-100 dollars because nobody knows what the hell is going on including the dealers had to tell her that my low was better to get my half of the pot more the once. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
By the way how are the tourneys there, how much does the house take, how many chips to you start with, blinds what do they start at and how fast do the move?

[vox]

[ QUOTE ]
Florida Casinos suck [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
2 poker with a 5 dollar rake thats a joke [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
I hate to be so negative [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
But the truth the Hard Rock Sucks [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
The dealers cant control the games, they allow table talk, string bets, and they give attiude when you give them a 50cent tip. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Ive seen them pull cards out of the muck, ever time I go there this has happened [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Players telling the whole table dang I folded the and 8 when the flop comes A88 gee thanks buddy! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
All in all the poker room is not run right the dealers are over tipped(like 7 dollars) on a 23 dollar pot. When I lived in AC 50cents to a dollar was standerd in a 20-40 stud game. All that aside the place has great potenteial [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
And the 2 dollar omaha is beatable for aabout 75-100 dollars because nobody knows what the hell is going on including the dealers had to tell her that my low was better to get my half of the pot more the once. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
By the way how are the tourneys there, how much does the house take, how many chips to you start with, blinds what do they start at and how fast do the move?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the Hard Rock pretty much sucks compared to, say, the Bellagio, but it's the only game in town. Incompetent brushes, ultra-chatty dealers, players throw out $8 when it's checked to them or fold from Seat 1 when the action's on Seat 4, I've seen more check-outs (folding when the bet is $0) than I can count, they let people SMOKE - but, again, only game in town. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

My God, the dealers get SO overtipped! It's ridiculous! And it makes me look like an [censored] when I throw them "just" a white when I get quartered!

And the dealers BEG for tips! Playing $2HE, I split a small pot and profit maybe $3. I don't tip. The dealer leans over to me in Seat 7, looks at me, and says "Congratuations." About 5 times. I eventually had to tell him, "Hey, I'll tip you when a win a pot with something in it."

But I LOVE the O8 there. It's the assembly of the best players in the room - and you're right, no one has a clue.

The tournaments are a joke. The big deal now is the $28+$12 SNG satellite into their $200+$40 Saturday events. I played a satellite at 3AM on a whim one night, won two hands and all of a sudden I was in 2nd place and got my money back. Total time at the table was less than an hour and we saw maybe 20 hands. Blinds went up at astronomical rate.

Next time I go (tonight?) I'll grab some rule sheets and abstract them for you.

[vox]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for your reply and starting a new thread - firstly i dont ever plan on playing slot machines, but it is good news for all those old people in florida, cuz it'll be a better game for them... what im personally excited about is higher stakes poker... and if im correct - that is tied in with class 3 for indian casinos?

[/ QUOTE ]

Class III refers only to the nature of the game, that is, do players bet against the house, or each other (a Class II game)? In theory, the Seminoles could sign a compact limiting bet sizes - but I don't think they want to, or will.

Actually, I'm not excited about high-stakes poker. I like to play a lot of poker, and I couldn't afford to play as much if the smallest game they spread is even $2-$4. Plus, with $2 being the max bet, all the rogue gamblers come onto the $2 tables and donk it up - which creates for major suckouts and mad variance, but occasionally, it's VERY profitable, even with the $6 off every pot (don't forget the jackpot). Hopefully when the limits go up, so will my bankroll.

lol they'd probably have a $50/.5hr time charge on 30/60 though..

<--Tampa

[TPaulk99]

[
To answer your question from the other thread, PhatCasino, the reason people say the Seminole machines are all tied in together is because Seminole's players play bingo against one another via these machines - hence, they are playing a Class II game, like bingo or poker, and not Class III house-backed slots. Most players don't pay the bingo portion of the game any mind, and some do and end up with the money.

My wife plays the slots and I am sure she is not aware of this. Can you explain what you should be looking for. Thanks in advance.

Please spare the "sure it's your wife" comments. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[vox]

[ QUOTE ]
[
To answer your question from the other thread, PhatCasino, the reason people say the Seminole machines are all tied in together is because Seminole's players play bingo against one another via these machines - hence, they are playing a Class II game, like bingo or poker, and not Class III house-backed slots. Most players don't pay the bingo portion of the game any mind, and some do and end up with the money.

My wife plays the slots and I am sure she is not aware of this. Can you explain what you should be looking for. Thanks in advance.

Please spare the "sure it's your wife" comments. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

At the top of the machine's screen, there's a bingo card and a window showing what balls are "drawn". The only time the slot machine pays is when you hit a bingo on the card. In fact, win or lose, you can skip the slot reels spinning.

To change the card, touch the screen until a combo of numbers you like comes up. Be sure to hit the "Daub" button when you make a bingo, or else you lose your jackpot.

I basically just summed up the help screen on every machine in there. Check it next time I go in to make sure I didn't leave anything out. Good luck!