($11) trips against 3-flush all-in on turn

#1 12-07-2005, 07:20 PM

Party Poker $10+1, level 1, no reads. Please critique my line/thinking.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t785)
BB (t1117)
UTG (t840)
UTG+1 (t785)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t785)
MP3 (t725)
CO (t1418)
Button (t745)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t15, 2 folds, Button calls t15, Hero completes, BB checks.

I know Q2o sucks, but for only t5 more (assuming BB doesn't raise) I complete here after limpers all the time in level one. Bad?

Flop: (t60) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets t15, BB folds, MP2 folds, Button raises to t45, Hero calls t30.

I figured I had a chance to double up early, so I wanted to keep people in. I thought button’s raise could mean anything – an attempt to steal based on my weak bet, maybe a small pair or A3 or a heart draw. I still wanted to keep him in, so only called his raise. Too greedy? Should I have reraised here?

Turn: (t150) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t200,

a third heart worried me, I wanted to knock him off a single heart draw. Should I have check-raised here instead?

Button raises to t685 (All-In), Hero calls t485.

Do you even consider folding to his all-in re-raise? I figured a pocket pair was as likely as a made flush, couldn’t see folding getting 2:1 with 10 outs...

Any comments will be appreciated.

splashpot · #2 12-07-2005, 08:11 PM

Bet the flop for 50 or so. Betting 15 is useless. When you bet 15, a flush draw would be CORRECT to draw. You want a flush draw to stay in, but only if it is with incorrect odds. If he raises you on the flop, go all in.

On the turn, I'd pot size it and probably call an all in.

david050173 · #3 12-07-2005, 08:12 PM

Fold q20 preflop early on. Yes it is cheap to play but it is hard to win a lot with it, and easy to lose a bunch. You hit a great flop but you have no idea if you are ahead or behind the button. When he pushing all in on the turn I think you are beat most of the time (either to a flush, a house, or a better kicker). If you are lucky you have 10 outs. If you are unlucky you are drawing to 2 outs for a split pot.

splashpot · #4 12-07-2005, 08:14 PM

Calling preflop is perfactly fine.

#5 12-07-2005, 08:24 PM

I'd definately bet the flop more to give the flush draws worse odds, especially early on. I don't know about pushing if I get reraised though on the flop this early. Later on with bigger blinds I would, but the two kicker worries me a little too much.

SammyKid11 · #6 12-07-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Calling preflop is perfactly fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Are you completing the SB Level 2 with any two...or is Q2 the bottom of your range?

I think routinely completing with junk, easily-dominated hands like this after Level 1 (where you've already got 2/3 of the BB in the pot) is a good way to 1) waste a lot of chips in a format where you desperately don't want to do that, and 2) find yourself in a position like this one where you're easily dominated but holding a hand you can't lay down.

Nick M · #7 12-07-2005, 09:01 PM

once the button pushes over your turn bet, what can you beat???? I fold here. And on a side note, I wouldn't lead the turn.

splashpot · #8 12-07-2005, 09:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Calling preflop is perfactly fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Are you completing the SB Level 2 with any two...or is Q2 the bottom of your range?

I think routinely completing with junk, easily-dominated hands like this after Level 1 (where you've already got 2/3 of the BB in the pot) is a good way to 1) waste a lot of chips in a format where you desperately don't want to do that, and 2) find yourself in a position like this one where you're easily dominated but holding a hand you can't lay down.

[/ QUOTE ]
This hand is level 1. He only need to call 5 chips. He's getting 11-1 odds. Plus implied odds if he hits 2 pair or better.

SammyKid11 · #9 12-08-2005, 01:40 AM

You're right, I totally missed that - of course he should complete here.

david050173 · #10 12-08-2005, 02:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You're right, I totally missed that - of course he should complete here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completing is ok but you have to be able to get away when you flop a good hand but one where you are behind. When you are playing with a weak kicker, 2 pair> trips.

On this board, what hands do you think you are beating on the turn? Bluff and a 4 flush are about it. Both are definitely a possibility butI would expect to see QJ,KQ, or AxH most of the time.