Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > General Poker Discussion > Brick and Mortar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-14-2005, 04:09 AM
Moneyline Moneyline is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 338
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

[ QUOTE ]
Again, let me reiterate that the 5/10 game will die a horrible death

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that this is the conventional wisdom, and conventional wisdom is usually right. I've also read about the chip structure study done in LA, which backs up what all the 5/10 naysayers are claiming. Nevertheless, if 1/2 chip structures are so horrible, how come Foxwoods has fantastic 5/10 kill games. The number of games are plentiful, and the action is virtually identical to Foxwoods' 4/8 games which uses $2 chips. If one were to buy into the chip structure theory, you'd probably assume that 4/8 has a lot more action, but that's just not the case.

While I don't discount the impact of chip structures entirely, I suspect it is a far less important factor than most feel, as evidenced by the games at Foxwoods.

Additionally, I believe internet poker has created a demand for 5/10. Many people are used to playing 5/10 on their computers, but have never played in (or even seen) a 4/8, 6/12, or 8/16 game being spread online. These players specifically want to play 5/10 because that is the limit they are comfortable playing online. Back when chip structure theory was created, there was no such demand. Now that there is, the Aladdin should be able to get a few more asses in the seats, especially since they have no competition at that limit.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-14-2005, 09:30 AM
steamboatin steamboatin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 420
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

The full kill is very attractive to gamblers so that is the most likely explanation why those games have good action. A straight 5-10 game is completely different than a kill game.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-14-2005, 09:53 AM
BoogerFace BoogerFace is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Outside Boston
Posts: 36
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?


What activates the kill? I think the reason why the foxwoods 5/10 kill game is so good is that a $100 pot activates the kill - and you end up with a kill pot most of the time.

Two pots in a row for a kill just plain ole sucks, IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-14-2005, 10:01 AM
steamboatin steamboatin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 420
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

That explains it perfectly. It isn't really a 5-10 it is a 10-20 with occasional relapses to 5-10.

The 10-20 game at Caesar's IN is probably the strongest limit in the room. It plays with a full kill but it takes two in a row to activate the kill.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-14-2005, 10:03 AM
TheMetetron TheMetetron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 92
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

Hahahahaha, using Foxwoods as the evidence that $5/10 and bad chip structures don't matter is ridiculous.

Who the hell uses $2 chips for a $4/8 game?

Foxwoods is by far the worst run poker room in the history of the world and these are just examples of it.

Everything about that room is nitty as hell and made to keep costs down to a minimum. And the action definitely suffers there.

I have no doubt that had they actually had $10 chips made, we would have been using them while playing $20/40.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-14-2005, 12:50 PM
MisterKing MisterKing is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

[ QUOTE ]
Well 3/6 is the normal low limit game spread there. Trying to spread 3/6 and 4/8 side by side does not work. It's been tried and tried. 3/6 and 5/10 on the other hand has not been tried very recently to my knowledge.

TT speaks of the 5/10 being tight with no action. Have you seen the state of the 1/2 NL games in this town lately? Any given day of the week you may and probably will have $15 average pots with half the players all waiting for aces and kings before they'll play. 2/5 NL is drying up slowly but surely. Most of the rooms that ran 3 or 4 at a time can barely get 1 or 2 off the ground now.

Players are slowly reverting back to limit. Those are the ones who played limit first and tried NL. The new players just trying NL before ever playing limit is a completely different story. Most of those players see NL as just another gambling/casino game like BJ or craps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Photoc, props for innovative and player-friendly thinking. I really enjoy playing at Aladdin, and I think your willingness to start spreading some new games is a welcome thing. As far as the 5/10 structure goes, though, I have to concur with others who have said that it is an action killer. The 5/10 games at Taj in AC are rock-tastic, and feature very very small pots in my experience. By contrast, the 6/12 at Borgata is slightly more loose-passive. I suppose you could make the $5/10 a better game by making it a 2 chip/4 chip game by using $2.50 chips -- that might actually be a draw in terms of it being one of a kind like the "pink" game at Tropicana AC ($7.50/$15 with $2.50 chips). Additionally, using the $2.50 chips would simplify the blind structure. If the $2.50 chip option doesn't work, why not just spread 6/12?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-14-2005, 05:36 PM
Moneyline Moneyline is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 338
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

[ QUOTE ]
Foxwoods is by far the worst run poker room in the history of the world and these are just examples of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, Foxwoods is not a well run poker room by any means, but that does not mean you should entirely discount everything that takes place there just because the management is poor.

[ QUOTE ]
Hahahahaha, using Foxwoods as the evidence that $5/10 and bad chip structures don't matter is ridiculous.

Who the hell uses $2 chips for a $4/8 game?

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that most casinos prefer not to use $2 chips for 4/8 isn't what's important. What's important is that the 2 chip/4 chip structure is supposed to create more action than 1chip/2chip, but at Foxwoods it doesn't. How the room is run is superfluous to the argument. What's relevant is that there's no difference in quality of games between the "good" structure at 4/8 and the "bad" structure at 5/10. Or, for that matter, no difference between 5/10 and 10/20 either.

[ QUOTE ]
Everything about that room is nitty as hell and made to keep costs down to a minimum. And the action definitely suffers there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just plain wrong. The action at Foxwoods is tremendous. There's not a single regular game in Vegas that approaches the softness of the games at Foxwoods. This is true at all hold 'em and O/8 limits, as well as the stud games I briefly sat in. The "poorly structured" 5/10 game at Foxwoods blows the doors of anything comparable in Vegas.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-14-2005, 05:44 PM
Moneyline Moneyline is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 338
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

[ QUOTE ]
That explains it perfectly. It isn't really a 5-10 it is a 10-20 with occasional relapses to 5-10.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. Occasionally there will be wacky games that play as 10/20 for hours, but typically the pots are split about 50/50 between kills and non kills.

In regard to your previous comment that the kill attracts people who are just looking to gamble it up, I think most of these types of players are playing 10/20 and higher. In fact, most of the 5/10 players there get a bit intimidated by the raise in stakes in kill pots and play more conservatively than they otherwise would. A tourist limping in for $5, and then pulling back his chip and folding because it's a kill pot is a fairly typical occourance there.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-14-2005, 06:03 PM
midas midas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 79
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

FYI - having played the 5-10 w/kill at FW. The 5-10 playing like 10-20 is a common myth. During the daytime, this game can have less action than a 4-8 table. Maybe the game plays with more kills on Friday and Saturday nights but based on my experience only about 20-30% of the pots play at 10-20.

BTW, the West Coast kill rule is annoying and stupid. Maybe one hand in 30 plays killed and rarely 2 in a row.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-14-2005, 06:14 PM
steamboatin steamboatin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 420
Default Re: Are you looking for 5/10 Limit Holdem in Vegas?

[ QUOTE ]
What activates the kill? I think the reason why the foxwoods 5/10 kill game is so good is that a $100 pot activates the kill - and you end up with a kill pot most of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not true. Occasionally there will be wacky games that play as 10/20 for hours, but typically the pots are split about 50/50 between kills and non kills.


[/ QUOTE ]

One of you is wrong or one plays during the day and the other on weekends.

[ QUOTE ]
In regard to your previous comment that the kill attracts people who are just looking to gamble it up, I think most of these types of players are playing 10/20 and higher.



[/ QUOTE ]

There is no point in continuing this discussion. You are convinced that you are right. Regardless of the obvious differences in a game played with or without a kill and the assurances of numerous experienced posters, you are still convinced that you are right. I conceed. You are right.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.