QQ HU with an ace

sy_or_bust · #1 09-25-2005, 08:28 PM

Villain is loose and erratic postflop. I don't have a firm read on his aggression yet. I have been running over this table with big hands and few showdowns, so I might attract more KJ-ish turn raises than usual.

I chose my turn/river play primarily based on the above. Thoughts?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.33 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.33 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 5.33 BB

#2 09-25-2005, 08:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is loose and erratic postflop. I don't have a firm read on his aggression yet. I have been running over this table with big hands and few showdowns, so I might attract more KJ-ish turn raises than usual.

I chose my turn/river play primarily based on the above. Thoughts?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.33 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.33 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 5.33 BB

[/ QUOTE ]
I liked the way you played on every street. Against an erratic opponent the turn check is standard in my opinion. If you are ahead there are not many river cards that can hurt you. And given the action, betting the river for value is correct.

toss · #3 09-25-2005, 08:43 PM

I think we need to bet the turn here. If villain has a draw to two pair or a flush draw we need to bet. We also need to bet if villain will calldown with a J or a T.

TheHammer24 · #4 09-25-2005, 09:13 PM

did you check the turn because you thought Villian would then call the river? Or did you fear a check raise? If you feared the checkraise were you going to fold to the river lead?

sy_or_bust · #5 09-25-2005, 09:25 PM

I planned on calling a river bet...I actually expected him to bet into me. If he'll do this with weak hands (that might fold the turn) and busted draws, which I thought he might, it makes the free card much more innocuous because it is no longer free. He will also call with weaker hands, conceivably, but most of these would have called a turn bet too.

As for the turn, I like a value bet but it gets tricky here. Villain could conceivably try for a bluff/semi-bluff raise (4-flush, 4-straight+weaker pair) based on what I have seen and how often I am in pots. This might be paranoia. I didn't want to face a raise because I have to fold, when 1) I may have the best hand, or a sketchy 6 outs 2) it invites the table to play back at me.

When the river is checked, I bet for value.

ep510 · #6 09-25-2005, 09:30 PM

Looks good.

QTip · #7 09-25-2005, 09:35 PM

I don't even find the turn to be a close decision, bet.

Nick C · #8 09-25-2005, 10:03 PM

Facing a turn checkraise here would be pretty awkward. And if you did get checkraised, the chances are pretty good that your outs are clean and you should call or your "outs" are dirty but you still shouldn't fold because you're ahead. (Then again, you could be up against KQ specifically, but if you're not, it seems likely to me that if you're behind, your outs are clean.)

Since Villain is loose, I kind of want to bet for value. But that looseness does make an ace-rag type hand more likely than it would be versus a tighter player, and Villain's erratic postflop play makes it more difficult to decide how to respond to a turn checkraise, if we're faced with one.

The pot's not that big, we don't know who's drawing, and it's not as if a particularly good draw is likely anyway. Checking with outs seems okay to me here, especially if you think Villain might fire on the river with a worse hand after you show weakness on the turn.

sy_or_bust · #9 09-25-2005, 10:08 PM

I used to think so, too. In adjusting to mid-limit I've had re-evaluate these spots. The good games are quite loose, but very LAG, where the average player bluffs a lot more. Postflop plays a lot like a 6-max game.

I guess I'm not comfortable folding to a raise in this specific situation, whereas the combo of inducing a bluff/weak call and possibly drawing out is pretty appealing to me.

There is a class of hands, say 22-TT UI, KT, or a five, that a bad player might peel with intending to raise or fold the turn. The turn check maximizes value in this situation. The iffy hands are flush draws, but they are rare, probably raise the flop, and might bluff the river.

QTip · #10 09-25-2005, 10:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I used to think so, too. In adjusting to mid-limit I've had re-evaluate these spots. The good games are quite loose, but very LAG, where the average player bluffs a lot more. Postflop plays a lot like a 6-max game.

I guess I'm not comfortable folding to a raise in this specific situation, whereas the combo of inducing a bluff/weak call and possibly drawing out is pretty appealing to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm doing some reading on mid limits, because I've been playing 10/20 some and starting to dabble in 15/30.

However, given your description on the opponent, I think you're hand is good here very often and he's at least calling down with a worse hand WAY too often to get concerned here. Given the description, he probably sucks at poker as well, and will call with a gutshot here or 22 or some nonsense.

If he c/res you, you almost have odds to chase your probably 6 outs, and that coupled with the times he's FOS, I'm showing down.

And FWIW, I bet a ton of river cards if I'm checked to as well after he check/calls the turn.