Implied odds?

DRD66 · #1 09-21-2005, 04:25 AM

I thought this was easy when I played it, but now I'm not sure. No reads, first hand at this table - GT+ not opened yet.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, Hero (poster) checks, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (15 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero ???

I know I don't have pot odds to call this, but in retrospect I'm wondering if I had implied odds? If the king falls, I should clean up on the river. How do I think this one out?

Highn · #2 09-21-2005, 04:33 AM

I don't like the pre-flop post, the pre-flop call and I don't think you have the implied odds to call the turn because you could just as well be splitting the pot with another T. You're taking the implied odds thing way too far. It usually is effective when it's a close decision between calling and folding, this case is an obvious fold in my opinion.

DRD66 · #3 09-21-2005, 04:43 AM

Well, I had no choice on the PF post (just sat down, remember?), and I'd call 1 small bet with most anything when 6(!) people already called 2. Just reread the SSHE bit about implied odds before this session, trying to find out how to put it in practice. Is there a way to get a hard number on it, or just go by feel ("easy fold", "close enuf to call" etc.) Someone enlighten me. I guess I'm figuring these guys are betting/raising less than top pair or flush draws, and I could extract at least 2, maybe 4+ bets on the river if I make it, but don't know how to quantify this.

pryor15 · #4 09-21-2005, 04:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I had no choice on the PF post (just sat down, remember?)

[/ QUOTE ]

it's called waiting.

DRD66 · #5 09-21-2005, 04:59 AM

OK, I could have waited, but I've got limited playing time tonight and the "post or wait" argument is a whole other question that's been discussed to death here.

Here's two other pieces of info that may help y'all help me:
1) Just made the jump from succesful .25/.5 player to getting killed at .5/1 (like many others it would seem) and am desparately trying to find the leaks
2) (in white to not spoil results) Of course a king came on river, which was raised and re-raised by 33 and Qx 

Anyone want to help me with the original question?

Highn · #6 09-21-2005, 05:03 AM

I did...

Nick Royale · #7 09-21-2005, 05:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Just made the jump from succesful .25/.5 player to getting killed at .5/1 (like many others it would seem) and am desparately trying to find the leaks

[/ QUOTE ]
If you had called this turn it would have been a huge mistake. I guess you need to start learning how to calculate odds. And the preflop call isn't anything to be proud about either.

DavidC · #8 09-21-2005, 07:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I could have waited, but I've got limited playing time tonight and the "post or wait" argument is a whole other question that's been discussed to death here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally when you post in mp3 or earlier, you should mention that you're purposely making a -ev decision for the sake of play-time, just for self-defense. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

However, I'm kinda curious as to where this has been discussed in depth... did you mean in this thread?

DavidC · #9 09-21-2005, 07:47 AM

re: results in white: nice table!

DavidC · #10 09-21-2005, 07:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I had no choice on the PF post (just sat down, remember?)

[/ QUOTE ]

it's called waiting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey man. I just made a post on this subject. Reply to it with your best numbers before you just follow the herd.
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

And by the way, this isn't just in reference to you specifically, it's a huge pet peeve of mine that practically everyone on here says, "Post in the CO and not in MP3," and I have yet to determine why this is the case.

I think I made a post on it about a year ago or half a year ago and there was no conclusion.

--Dave.