Another Commerce Hand...

[lapoker17]

I'm UTG ($1600) with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (ridiculously tight table) and open for $80. UTG + 1 ($830) immediately makes it $180. The guy hasn't played a hand in an hour. It's folded around to me, and, for a second, I actually think about folding (can't really see hime reraising with anything but AA or KK). I call.

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check and he bets $300

I push.

Thoughts...

[zephyr]

I don't usually reply on this forum, as I'm an sng player. But I've recently been dabbling in the mid stakes NL games so I'll give you my thoughts.

[ QUOTE ]
I actually think about folding (can't really see him reraising with anything but AA or KK).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can accurately place him on these hands then I think a fold preflop is your best move.

Being that you've made it this far, I think your play is fine, but wouldn't expect many players to lay KK or AA down here.

Only my opinion,

Zephyr

[fsuplayer]

It's folded around to me, and, for a second, I actually think about folding (can't really see hime reraising with anything but AA or KK). I call.


[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

fold preflop? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

given that you didnt, the flop push is pretty standard IMO. Thats about the best flop you could ever hope for if you put him on that range of hands...

[lapoker17]

OK, OK, No one else needs to respond - I think I was passively trying to ask if I can fold preflop here and still not be a total pussy - Just needed someone to tell me that would've been OK...

[riverboatking]

if he has AA he will have a hard time calling becuase you know he doesn't have the ace of spades.
if he has KK with the K of spades, he may or may not call (you say he's rediculously tight so there is a lot of folding equity), but even if he calls you're not in that bad of shape.

however yes i would fold this preflop. the problem is you are out of position, so you really have no implied odds. you say how tight he is so you can't expect him to pay you off with KK or QQ if an ace hits, and if the flop comes K high you can be in a world of hurt.

[lapoker17]

Thanks riverboat - Good analysis. The one other play I considered afterwards was pushing the flop immediately - And in my head I really liked it. Any thoughts on that?

[phifediggy]

i might've been tempted to push immediately because with his bet he has committed half of his beginning stack to the pot and might not be willing to fold despite your checkraise. if you lead out immediately and he is extremely tight he might lay it down, which is about as good as you can hope for (unless you caught your spade). who knows...

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks riverboat - Good analysis. The one other play I considered afterwards was pushing the flop immediately - And in my head I really liked it. Any thoughts on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

you know i didn't really pay enough attention to his stack size, i guess i just foolishy assumed he had you covered.
now that i calculate the bets relative to his stack, i see that once he bets the $300 on the flop he has committed himself...so in effect you are calling all in not raising all in.
so yes i like your all in instinct alot. but i think betting out $350-400 on the flop (which will effectively be putting him all in without being so blatently obvious about not wanting a call) will be much more effective for all the reasons i mentioned in my first response.

in this case you are actually benefitting from acting first because you have the oppertunity to take the play away from him by betting first and reducing his options to calling all in.

but remember you got a miracle flop in this spot which won't happen often, so vs. this opponent (even more so now that i see his stack size) i would definately fold this preflop.

[ArtVandelay]

I like check-raising more than betting-out. If he's really so tight he'll fold kings or aces here, then this hand doesn't matter because you can rob him blind on every other. Given that, you want to give him a chance to bluff with AKs or any other hand you're beating. Pushing only guarentees you win when you're ahead, and it does little to help when you're behind.

[GimmeDaWatch]

[ QUOTE ]
I like check-raising more than betting-out. If he's really so tight he'll fold kings or aces here, then this hand doesn't matter because you can rob him blind on every other. Given that, you want to give him a chance to bluff with AKs or any other hand you're beating. Pushing only guarentees you win when you're ahead, and it does little to help when you're behind.

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Uhhhh, villain is committing himself with a flop bet. If he folds after betting $300, he's not "tight" he's silly.