60-120 hand Th3h

[elindauer]

Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Your turn raise protects your hand when it's ahead in a good sized pot, while simultaneously putting you in a lose-the-least-make-the-most situation against passive playing opponents who don't want to reraise the turn without a big hand.

my 2 cents.
Eric

[Coilean]

I love the turn raise, but I might have a hard time not betting the river after the SB folds to your turn raise. He was the main threat to have you beaten on the turn, so after he folds you are only left with opponents who are going call-call-call, which top pair usually beats. The Q on the river could be trouble, but I think a bet it still worth consideration after they check it to you.

[Coilean]

Heh, I feel tempted me to fly out there right now. Does it appear the 60 will become a regular game at the Commerce?

[obi---one]

I wouldn't put in two bets against seven people on the turn with top pair 3 kicker. What card do you want to river? If you are ahead, the only safe card is a ten. If you are not, there is no card you want to see! If there was only one or two opponents I would like the move better but you are building a nice pot and you are unsure where you are at. I would raise the flop or call the turn if I was playing your hand. Fancy plays are -ev when you are seven way action.

[Coilean]

If you had read the same hand I did, you would have noted he had only 3 opponents on the turn, as well as a flush draw and a gutshot, in addition to his top pair.

[mike l.]

"Does it appear the 60 will become a regular game at the Commerce?"

hey man! yeah it does appear to be a regular game now! im very happy about this of course cause it's right in my playing range. it attracts some really lousy players as do all games, but also sometimes attracts some of the better 40-80 players making those games better. it's just an all around great thing. oh one more really super thing about it is that it's a collection pot game! i think for the 80 and the 1-2 game ive played about 200 hours this year and averaged something like $3 per half hour in collection paid!

but anyway yeah this was the first time id seen the 60 in ages but a friend told me theyve been spreading it regularly for the past two weeks. the 80 is never an 80 anymore it's always 1-2 and we play it with $25 chips now. let me know if youre coming out so i can attempt to simultaneously meet with you and avoid you.

[mike l.]

"I would raise the flop or call the turn if I was playing your hand."

i think youre confused about something critical that sshfap addresses in detail. it has to do with thin EV edges on the flop and waiting for the turn card to fall. they say it much better than i could in the book. anyway that was very much in my mind when i flat called the flop and waited to see what came on the turn.

[obi---one]

I still don't know what he wants to hit on the river against three opponents, the only safe card is a ten. Unless he is behind. Then he is not sure if he wants to hit a three, four, or heart. Obviously, he gains a lot if information about the strenth of the other players hands when he raises the turn, but I don't think that info is worth two big bets against that many opponents. After Mike's raise he is down to two opponents, is he ahead or behind? What card does he want to see now? I would call the turn with his hand. This pot is big, better hands will not fold unless they are real weak tight and hold 10- 9,j,q,k.

I guess I think the play is okay if you think you have the best hand and am trying to protect it by making your hand look bigger than is is. But, I think it is a bad play to pop it because the heart comes. If the 7 of spades hits the turn, would you still raise? If yes, then I like your play more. If no, then I don't like your play. Seven people before the flop means a lot of cards, combinations are out there.

[elysium]

hi mike

well played. i think a stronger T may be out there, but i don't think that you can fold it out. it's KT or JT, and you will be called too often to make the bet on the river worthwhile. of course, if you think that you can fold it, then betting is correct. i can't imagine that you think that you could, though, given the turn call. ain't foldin. good raise by the way.

[anduril]

I would raise the flop or call the turn if I was playing your hand

Please correct me if I'm wrong Mike, but the entire reason for the raise on the turn is to see a showdown for free with a mediocre hand. Raising the flop gets you nowhere since he is being called and hoping to hit another 10, a 3, or a heart. If the heart comes then he is still semibluffing, though possibly with the best hand. Raising the turn gets opponents with draws to be charged, and maybe gets better hands to fold. It also gets another bet on 4th street, and at least one more bet on the river if he improves. If he doesn't, opponents are checking to him and gets to see if his hand is good for free. I never thought Mike was winning this hand after all the cards were out and I'm not sure he did either, but the results don't matter because his play is definitely +EV.