So Why is Stealing Wrong Again?

[David Sklansky]

Everybody seems to agree that looting a store of a loaf od bread to allow your children to survive, is totally OK. And burglarizing a middle class couple of their one valuable possesion, an engagement ring, so you can make a necklace for your Persian cat, isn't.

But where do you draw the line? Suppose through absolutely no fault of your own, you have to work two jobs to feed your sick wife and kid. Your neighbor inherited a billion dollars recently, hasn't moved yet, takes drugs from morning till night, and keeps 50 hundred dollar bills on his coffeetable in his unlocked home. He staggers out one day and you can walk in and grab that money to more nutritiously feed your family and get better medicine. What argument, other than it is against the law, makes it wrong for you to steal his money but not wrong for the desperate looters to loot?

[AlphaWice]

I myself don't believe in right or wrong. I think choices can be made without having to appeal to right or wrong. Most people do not believe this because they do not understand the idea of social norms.

[tek]

If it's a life or death situation and you have exhausted legal ways to obtain relief (or don't have the opportunity due to time, logistics, etc), then taking the minimum necessary to sustain life or remedy a medical problem or whatever would be acceptable behavior. In the Old Testament it is stated that stealing and self-defense killing in a life-or-death situation is ok.

[David Sklansky]

But why not otherwise?

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
But why not otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you going in the direction of a bell curve morality?

Two standard deviations (pun intended) of aberrant behavior acceptable based on self-established justification?

Alex Mugaaz stated “The real reasons it's morally wrong is because it's an attack on society. Society needs ownership in order to function. When theft is rampant, what is the point of industry.”

ÖÖΘ stated: ”In addition, stealing affects both the thief and victim. The victim loses feelings of security, and is forced to waste time and resources protecting his property. The thief suffers from the curse of anyone who gains without legitimate effort - a weakening of his moral fiber, a lessening of positive motivation, and a loss of normality. His successes in life will be cheapened by the fact he couldn't make it without stealing.”

Both are valid points, however, if you go back to the time between hunter-gather up to city-state days a valid point could be made that stealing WAS necessary to build their society because to do otherwise would be to their society’s detriment.

But after a society has been established, then it enters into the curve of the bell regarding morality and ethics.

But in your example to basically say “Well, he’s rich and I’m tired of just getting by…” is not an adequate justification.

I guess what I’m saying is that the bell curve of morality applies to entire societies, while more stringent rules apply to individuals. The reason being that individual’s making their own rules undermines their society from within.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's a life or death situation and you have exhausted legal ways to obtain relief (or don't have the opportunity due to time, logistics, etc), then taking the minimum necessary to sustain life or remedy a medical problem or whatever would be acceptable behavior. In the Old Testament it is stated that stealing and self-defense killing in a life-or-death situation is ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't recall those passages.

[baggins]

" In the Old Testament it is stated that stealing and self-defense killing in a life-or-death situation is ok. "

where, prey tell, is this?

[tek]

I can't quote you chapter and verse, but I remember it from Confirmation class way back which was taught by the Rabbi's wife...

[ QUOTE ]
If it's a life or death situation and you have exhausted legal ways to obtain relief (or don't have the opportunity due to time, logistics, etc), then taking the minimum necessary to sustain life or remedy a medical problem or whatever would be acceptable behavior. In the Old Testament it is stated that stealing and self-defense killing in a life-or-death situation is ok.

[/ QUOTE ]There are plenty of people who are down and out with not enough social services (such as food kitchens and shelters) to serve the needy. Is it OK for these people to steal?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I don't think there are many good moral reasons when you consider it as a crime only between the 2 people in a vacuum. In those circumstances I think stealing might be morally wrong because it has very much in common as violence except spread over time, and is a direct attack on most people pursuit of happiness.

The real reasons it's morally wrong is because it's an attack on society. Society needs ownership in order to function. When theft is rampant, what is the point of industry.

This seems similar to the argument as why to punish someone who is guilty of a crime if they have already reformed and made up for their crimes in some way. There are other valid reasons for punishment, almost all of them have to deal with how not punishing this person affects society im similar circumstances.


If this question is changed to a world where these 3 are the only ones alive, I wonder if it would become morally wrong not to steal. I think the answer of that would be based on the chances of your wife dying vs the chance of your theft resulting in deadly violence between you and the druggy.