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  #1  
Old 11-25-2005, 10:54 AM
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Default Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

(Micro Limit HE) 3 limpers call in EP and MP and Im on the cutoff with A To and I call, The button, whos stats are 17/0.5/2.3 in 100 hands raises it. The three limpers call and it's back to me. In the real game I was at, I folded. I'm about 98% sure that the button has me dominated. AA-QQ or AKs. My question is, should I still call because I'm getting pot odds? I know I have to get a real lucky flop to win (Meaning two pair for me will probably will give others better two pairs and straight draws and the only flop I could win with was two tens showing up on the flop to get me trips)
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Old 11-25-2005, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

lol this is micro limit? sling the penny in there and shut up
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Old 11-25-2005, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

I'm asking because I've only started playing limit HE a few weeks ago. Apparently it matters whether the stakes are large or small?
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Old 11-25-2005, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

At lower limits you get much more calls and raises with weak hands. This enables you to also call with weaker hands then you would in higher limit cash games.

Dancer
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2005, 01:09 PM
Guthrie Guthrie is offline
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

Ed Miller in SSHE, and 2+2 doctrine, says to always call one bet back if you have already limped. If it's two bets back to you, or three, then you probably need to pause and revaluate your hand. Sometimes in micro limits donks get into an irrational raising war preflop just for the fun of it. This could be good, or bad, depending on your holdings.

I would imagine that this advice might change as limits increase and you're up against better players.

Also, you'll get better responses if you post this in the Texas Hold 'em Micro Limits Forum rather than Poker Theory.
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Old 11-25-2005, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

i basically agree with last poster... in easier games, the odds of your AT or AJ being dominated is fairly small (although you said the guys 0.5% pre-flop raise, so you are probably correct on AA-QQ or AK, assuming you have enough data on the guy)./

against bad players i wouldn't sweat the AJ too much. i know top player like phil gordon seem to really dislike AJ, AT, KJ etc.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:33 PM
GMan42 GMan42 is offline
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know you\'re dominated

With the pot odds you're getting here it's a sin not to call...take a look at the flop and evaluate from there. Don't forget that if he had you dominated with AK etc., a T puts you way ahead, similarly if he has KK/QQ/JJ your ace outs are probably good. There are definitely times you'll want to make the laydown on the turn/river even after having paired up (depending on the action from the PFR and the other limpers), but preflop is not the time to fold this. Play postflop poker.
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2005, 07:57 PM
UVaHoo UVaHoo is offline
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know you\'re dominated

You're getting 10.5 to 1 to call the raise when it's back to you, and you're closing the action so you don't have to worry about a re-raise behind you. The ONLY hand you're hoping isn't out there is aces, and you're getting basically even odds to call if he does have aces. Also, if he has aces, and you hit a big hand, he'll pay you off. You're easily getting the odds you need to call if you're dominated by a higher ace, which is only a likely holding of the button. The same thing is true if the raiser has KK. You'll flop your ace much more often than is required to make this preflop call.

The other problem with limp/folding is that people will start to take shots at you in shorthanded pots if they've noticed that you'll make this play.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2005, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

You are not playing this pot against the pfr. You are playing against the pfr + the 3 limpers. With all their extra money padding the pot, you can afford to make this call.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:59 PM
BasketballNYC BasketballNYC is offline
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Default Re: Folding preflop to a raise when you know your dominated

The real key to this type of situation is how are you going to play this when you hit something. So you flop a ten, do you intend on calling him all the way down because you may have sucked out his AK? Can you tell if he has UI AK or if he has QQ? What if you flop an A? Same problem in reverse. At this level, if you show any aggression for information purposes when you flop a ten, the weak tight players are just going to call you all the way down and flip JJ or QQ. Same thing with AQ. The only hands you are going to be able to dodge are AA and AK. Even a tight nit will play back hard at you if you both flop and A. This is the real problem with these types of hands. Being dominated isn't the issue as much as getting into trouble losing a big pot. I would much rather have 56s here
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