Do bad starting hands do well short term or am I on tilt?

[Buzz]

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In O8B, there are a lot of hands, and i mean a lot, that are playable PF that people say arent.

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TxRedMan - Who is (are) “people”?

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IMO, your play on the flop is what determines how many hands you can play PF.

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I’d say there are also some other factors involved - mainly how your opponents play on each betting round.

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If you play the flop and turn exceptionally well, your implied odds are great, which compensates for playing hands like KQ24 or JJ57,crap like that....

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I wish you’d specify suitedness. K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] seems playable to me, not “crap” at all.
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] seems marginal to me - playable on the button in a loose/passive game.
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] seems a poor hand to me, but in a game where seven or eight players regularly saw the flop and then regularly chased all the way to the river, regardless of how well their hands fit the flop, would become playable for me.

I have all the 57JJ hands rated as poor bets, regardless of suitedness, but I like 57JJd better than 24QKn.

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Ted Forrest once spent an entire month playing every single hand dealt to him PF in O8B, and made a profit doing so.

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But he didn’t necessarily make a profit on every single poor starting hand dealt to him. I imagine he probably fared better with the better starting hands than with the poorer starting hands.

And since he probably didn’t need to play as many starting hands as he was playing, he probably was not playing optimally.

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The point is, if you can play the flop like an expert, you can play a lot of [censored] hands in this game....

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I think experts play their opponents.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Buzz]

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I think that most forms of poker are streakier than most people realize. Variance plays a huge roll. Even if you could play at the same table with the same opponents for a very long time, you will have streaks when you run red hot and streaks when you're really cold.

If these streaks weren't around, losing players would actually realize that they suck and there would only be sharks at the tables.

If you are running cold, just stay positive and play through it. Realize that you actually deserve a cold run of cards since things are just averaging out. Review hand histories and ensure that you haven't developped bad habits that are causing you to leak chips. Don't let a cold streak slowly transform you into a losing player.

Good luck, stay positive and work through this streak.

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se2schul - Seems like good advice stemming from a decent understanding of “streaks.”

Just my opinion.

Buzz

I think that u can play those very maginal hands like KQ24 double-suited in limit O/8 from EP or MP. Even if this makes u "unpredictable", u still will be losing a lot of money just called with these hand PF (assuming that ur playing @ a game with decent players that can get away from hands. Even though u r doubled suited ur not drawing to the nuts, so what is the point of it being double suited? Especially in PLO8 u will lose a whole lot of money not having the nut flush when u get into big hands. From LP, opening the betting, i might raise with this hand to change things up. But playing these hands would be something i do very rarely ot make people think differently about how i play. With hands like KQ24, what type of flops are you looking for? Your looking for an Ace on the flop or you fold (unless u flop trips or nut straight). For the low ur looking for A3x, which is not going to come often. You are banking on an Ace coming on the flop with either 3 or a 2flush/straight for u, it just doesnt seem like this is +EV play (once again, if ur @ a very tight table u can play this hand from LP or even MP to take down blinds and so forth) 20% is about the right % of hands played, but u might not be playing them well Post flop or ur just not playing the right 20% (as mentioned earlier).
About the swings: The swings will be worse than u would originally think (even though its a split game) -- i think that the 2+2 split game book talks about the fact that OH8 has a very high variance and that it might not seem as much @ a B & M because so much time is being spent splitting pots and calculating everything but the swings are rather big. 6K hands is a good start, but if your really lost i suggest reading some books before you continue.
A note for the lower limit OH8:
At these low limits its usual to see 7 people in PF, so u might get the odds to call with these crappy hands (KQ24), this is why i suggest either playing higher limits of PLO b/c then u can Pot hands from LP and punish those people playing these marginal hands instead of having them call u down for 3-4BB. Also, since so many people are in these pots in the lower limits, post-flop and on you should only be drawing to (playing) the nuts, the 2nd nuts should be thrown away because there is a good chance that someone is drawing to the nuts. Also, if there are 2flushes out and u have an open-ended straight draw/wrap-around u can take 1 card off if u r going for a straight that will scoop and there are more than 4 people calling, but not more than that. A lot of ur outs are dead because of the flush draw that i can gaurantee at least 1 person is on.

[Beavis68]

My variance in BBs is definitely lower in Omaha. I go through streaks just as bad, or worse than in hold'em, but I do not lose as much on the bad streaks, I am usually folding on the flop.

r u sure ur not just playing better omaha than holdem?

[chaos]

I doubt Ted Forrest was playing every hand in a loose, passive, low-limit Omaha/8 game. At the higher limits the game plays much differently. There is usually a raise or a reraise PF, few people see the flop, and it is usually heads up or three-handed after the flop.