Failed attempt(s) at stealing.....

[CWilly]

Ok, so this hand came up in a 1/2 games on prima earlier. Anyone like it, or do you reckon i'm just spewing chips?

I'm in BB with 88, one caller in MP and then button pops it up to $8. I'm the biggest stack at the table with around $330 in chips, have a fairly aggressive style and have been pretty much controlling the table. Villain has only been sat down for a few orbits and hasnt done much to catch my attention.

Caller folds and we see a flop:

Pot: $19

4s 7c 9s

Not a particularly scary flop, but i check to the raiser (this is probably my 1st mistake....in hindsight a bet would have made more sense).

Button bets $8 and i call. This isn't a very strong bet and continuation bets are the norm in these games. He could easily have overcards here. My plan was to bet out on the turn and try and end the pot right there.

Turn:

Pot:$35

4s 7c 9s 6c

A great card for me as I now have the OE straight draw. I bet out for $18 (too low?) and get called.

Now i'm pretty sure that he has an overpair and am prepared to give up the pot from here on but.....

River:

Pot: $71

4s 7c 9s 6c As

If my read is correct(i like to go with my gut feeling) and the villain does have an overpair then this is a perfect card for another steal so i bet $40. He thinks for a while and calls.

Turns over pocket aces.

Even though I lost the pot, i believe that the majority of my play in this hand was justified and there were many hands that he could be holding that he would have to seriously consider folding to the river bet.

What do you all think?

[ajmargarine]

The first opportunity to steal was checkraising the flop. It represents a strong hand and villian is hardpressed to call a nice sized checkraise if he has just 2 non spade overs. I like the checkraise instead of leading out if you are intent on making a move, as it represents a set to most players. It's also cheapest if villian doesn't go away.

The lead on the flop is goofy. How does that six help you again? Your bet tells villian it helped you somehow, or that you are making some kind of sophisticated play on him. Taking that $18 and checkraising him on the flop would have had much more success, IMO. He discounts your possible 5-8 and 8-10, and carries on, calling a bet size that he may have chosen himself to make against you, so no sweat off his back. And it was that bet that doomed your river bet. Check/call the turn is probably better, and then you have the perfect river card to make a play with, if you are willing to go that far with it.

He has to be concerned with you pairing your ace, or making your flush. If he has TT-KK, hard for him to call a nice sized bet with only one pair....I mean, in his mind, you were calling along with something right, flush draw or A9.

I would have to vote you are spewing chips the way you made this play. Of course, I may have tried the same thing. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[ajmargarine]

(afterthoughts)

When you're stealing, it has to look logical to the villian that you have what you are representing. So stealing on the flop with a checkraise, says I have trips, pay me off. On the range of hands villian may be playing, here is where he most likely lays down a high PP or overs.

Now, your call on the flop, tells him you have a piece of the flop and want to see how this hand develops and you're not sure you believe that he has what he is representing. But, you've also limited how you can effectively steal, because you have to represent something better than what he has, and that's going to be based on the cards to come.

6 comes, and you bet. What is villian thinking? Villian: How did this six help him? Would Hero have called my flop bet with 66? Is he in the hand this far with 5-8 or 8-10? I suppose he could be being tricky with a set of 4's, 7's or 9's, so I should be careful. Semibluffing one of the flush draws on the board? Doubtful. But, as I would have probably bet around this amount anyway if Hero checked, I will just call here and see what happens.

And then the river bet was doomed. Because of the previous action, it didn't add up for villian. Even if he has KK here, I think if he ponders it he would probably call you. Good hand though to post, nice one to learn from.

[CWilly]

I agree that a check-raise on the flop would have been a viable option, but had not thought of that at the time.

By leading out on the turn I was able to better gauge the strength of the villain's hand as it is possible that he didnt hit anything on the flop, doesnt have a pair and hence is sitting with just two overs. A call at this point will confirm the fact that I am beat, and i can back off from the hand (as I wasnt initially intending to bet out on the river).

Thanks for replies. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyone else have anything to add?

[srm80]

i hardly ever see people lay down AA, even if there are 4 cards to a straight/and flush on the table. I just don't see it happen. When I see people make all-in crying calls, AA gets shown a lot. It seems like people think they would have gone all-in anyway, so why not just throw them in after the flop no matter what. strange...

[DoomSlice]

In my opinion, the river is the worst place to bluff.

1. The pot is inflated and you'll have to bet quite a bit just to make it so they don't have pot odds to call with their "beaten" hands
2. Most people will not give you credit for an ace on the river, it just doesn't seem reasonable that you'd be betting all that way with just ace high.
3. If you DO feel the need to bluff, make it something that they might actually consider folding, like $60.
4. Unless they are on a draw and missed, many people are attached to their hands by the river. The river is the place where I fold the least out of all streets.
5. When you are bluffing, be sure you know what you are representing - "I have a hand" - just won't cut it. If you're repping an overpair, be sure to raise it preflop. If you are repping two pair, make a random checkraise on a supposed blank and then fire big on the river. Flushes are probably the easiest to bluff on, but you'll have to bet big or else people will look you up quite often.

I bluff a lot, but most of my sucessful bluffs are where I've shown strength the entire time, keep that in mind.

Happy bluffing!