Pointless to value bet?

Simple question: If you have a strong hands and you put your opponent on a draw, and the river does not help his draw, is it pointless to value bet?

You're not going to get called by a busted draw, and it opens the door for a bluff on villains part.

So, is it ever worth it?

[crosse91]

if you are to act before him, sometimes you can check the river and they'll fire out a bet, then you raise their bluff and they either get mad and call or fold.

obviously this doesn't always happen, so it is best to try and value bet river, hoping they hit at least a pair.

The key here is to know your opponent and act accordingly.

[orange]

Of course its worth it. Even if you do put villan on a busted draw he could still have a pair, or something to pay you off. Why go to a free showdown? It reveals your cards at a small price.

If you mean c/c-ing to induce a bluff, thats different. It is opponent dependent whether to check your TPTK on the river IMO, or something of the sort.

If you do have a strong hand however, it is almost always correct to value bet.

[CWilly]

I make alot of money by checking to a suspected missed draw on the river. I dont see much point in raising if he fires out a bet though. Check calling makes more sense unless I have a monster, as a hand that would call the raise would probably have me beat.

[djoyce003]

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If you do have a strong hand however, it is almost always correct to value bet.

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this is the key part of his advice.

Valuebetting is something that comes with experience but let me break down how I do it, feel free to blow this up if anyone disagrees:

1) I value bet against opponents that are calling stations far more than I value bet against opponents that are tricky lags. I keep notes of people that will call down with TP no kicker, or second or third pair on the flop. These are the people I value bet. I either lead into them OOP or I bet after they've checked.

2) I don't value bet as often against tricky LAGS because i don't want my TPTK to face a big checkraise or raise on the river that might make me fold a winner. I'll typically check behind in position, or check/call out of position because these tricky LAGS will bluff a lot.

[PokerFink]

Right on the money djoyce.

Check/calling is a powerful tool. It ensures that you will see a showdown, and it is often the only way to make money on the river. If you think your opponent missed a draw and has nothing, feel free to check to induce a bluff, then quickly call any bet.

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Even if you do put villan on a busted draw he could still have a pair, or something to pay you off.

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You do realize an opponent on a draw usually does not also have a pair to go with that? But yes, there is always that chance.

Ex: They hold 58 and the flop comes 67A pairing your ace and giving them OESD.. turn is a queen... river is a 5. He's paired, yet probably doesn't call.

Another example (where he's likely to call though) is if he holds AQ diamonds and you hold KK, and the board comes 259 (2 diamonds)...turn is T hearts.... river is Queen clubs...he's extremely likely to call your value bet here.

Typically, if someone is on an OESD on the turn, with two unpaired cards, there are 14 cards in the deck that can help them improve to at least a pair on the river. 30 cards will not help them. So they are about 2-1 against improvement. Of the times they do improve, how often will they call your value bet? Who knows.

[Rococo]

K-Steel,

You are getting some shaky advice here. It's really pretty simple. You open bet on the river only if one of the following is true:

1) You believe that that is very likely that you have the best hand and you believe that your opponent i) will call with a weaker hand but b) is likely to check behind if you do not bet. This is a scenario where you are likely to call or push if raised.

2) You believe that your opponent will fold a better hand than yours often enough to make a bluff +EV. This is a scenario where you are likely to fold if raised.

3) You are unsure whether you have the best hand and you believe that by betting, you will prevent your opponent from either a) causing you to call a larger bet than you would like to call or b) potentially bluffing you off the winning hand. This is a blocking bet. The usefulness of blocking bets is very player dependent and this does not mean that you bet the river every time you feel that you are probably ahead but aren't sure.