Bet the Raise

[pcutom]

Hi all. I am new to the site. In fact, this is my first post. I am a long time poker player and I am an avid student of the game, reading and studying just about every thing I can get my hands on....but enough about me. I wanted to ask the opinion of some of the great minds on this site in regards to a specific home game I frequently play in. We play four games (one round of each) - Omaha high, 7 stud, 5 stud, and what we call pinnaple. I've heard it called Luisianna in other places, but it's basically hold-em where you get 3 cards and must discard one before the bet gets to you.

The stakes are high in this game. In fact, I am kind of reluctant to say exactly how high for a number of reasons, but suffice it to say, winning or loosing the equivelant of a luxury car in one session is not at all unusual.

Here's the interesting part of the game and what is at the root of my question. In all the games we play, the betting goes like any normal game, with two super huge exceptions. 1)There is no limit to the number of raises and the raise can always be double the last bet, and 2)On the next card, any better can now come out betting whatever the last raise was. So, for instance, if the bet got raised 3 times on the flop to say, $800. The better can come out betting anything up to $800 on the next card. As you can see, this can make for some tremendous action.

I've been playing in this game for about 3 years and have done quite well in the first 2 years. This year has been much more unpredictable, mainly I believe, due to the intoduction of some new above average players. So here I am trying to better myself [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

My question or questions are in regard to how this betting stucture truly changes the games and how they should be played. You won't find any literature on a betting structure like this, so its often a tricky thing for me when trying to apply theories and concepts from books I've studied to this particular game. It's not limit, pot limit or even no limit. My feeling is that it most closely resembles pot limit, but since it's not exactly the same, any insight on how I might adjust pot limit strategies would be greatly appreciated.....or am I wrong on that altogether?

I've read most of the books published by two plus two, most of them numerous times, so any reference on how to apply the lessons in any of those books to my home game would be the most valuable for me.

All comments and addition questions or clarification or welcome.

Thanks in advance for your insights!

[grandgnu]

If you can afford to lose the equivalent of a luxury car in one poker session.......I hate you. *smirk*

I would agree that this most closely resembles pot-limit with a little limit thrown in. I would say you should use pot limit theorem since pot limit would be even higher stakes and more risk than this particular setup you use now.

Better to err on the side of caution in my opinion. Then again, I'm not one of the great minds on this site. I consider myself an above average player, but who doesn't consider themselves above average? *smirk*

[BasketballNYC]

This is an interesting twist. What about the case where there is merely a bet and a call. On the next round a player can only bet the standard amount?

This seems to have the action of PL but also the inability to protect a hand like in limit. Wouldn't this make chasing more profitable then in a normal PL/NL game? If I chase on the flop cheaply and hit on the turn, I may be able to really build a pot by the river.

Why don't you guys play PL/NL? Is there a rationale, or do you just like the change of pace? Cool idea though

Matt F.

[pcutom]

If it never gets raised, there is the standard double bet on the turn and river. In the stud games, there is a double bet on the last card only.

Like most home games, this is just the way it sort of evolved.

The game has a lot of agressive players, so you don't have to worry about building a pot too often.

For me, the toughest game is Omaha under this method. This is because wth so many pseudo-maniacs in the game, it often gets raised 3 or 4 times before the flop! It not being my best game, I have trouble finding many hands I'm willing to play for that kind of money before the flop. Of course even if you catch a piece of the flop, now your looking at some big bets coming your way if you want to try and draw out. My basic strategy up to this point has been simply to not get involved unless I have good position and only draw to the nuts. The tough part is, that there are always a few players in the pot, so you really have to play drawing hands to have a chance. top 2 pair or trips get beat all the time in this game.

[Louie Landale]

This doesn't sound much like pot limit to me. If it starts at $10 bets and there is a single raise, the next bet is $20, just like normal limit. If there is a raise on the next round then the 3rd round is $40, instead of $20, not that much better.

Your Omaha ram and jam game sounds a little more like Pot limit, simply by virtue of the raises. A bet and two raises is about the size of the pot. Not sure what to tell you about Omaha if you have no feel for it, but I'd be tempted to play the nuts and let the aggressive folks build YOUR pot, until you have the nuts on the turn, then put in your raises. If you counter that with assertiveness in Holdem where you are more comfortable, they may not actually notice.

- Louie

So if the last bet was $100 and you bet $1 on the next round, raise increases start over? $2, then $4?

[pcutom]

Good advice on the Omaha, but let me clarify about the raises. If the bet got raised to say $500 on the last betting round, and now you come out betting $100, I can raise to $600. You can make it $1200 and so on. Whatever the max bet was is the maximum raise. Next round, whatever you bet, I can raise it by $1200.