Do you really need to have Understood TOP to understand SSH

[Radio]

I have read and fully understood WLLH and ITH, I then moved onto SSH, Although i understood it partialy and can apply some of the concepts and they have improved my play from week tight to more TAG style. I feel that im haveing alot of problems fully absorbing and applying alot of the concepts, Its as if there's an intermediate bit missing between the books i have read and SSH. I just cant get into the mindset of going on purly + or - EV when playing. I find that I play tight SSH preflop and postflop I use my instinks based on the size of the pot, player reads and the type of hand i have when seeing the flop. I raise for value and when my instinks tell me a rasie will help me but i dont think about or even really no how apply weather what im doing is +EV or not. I find it hard to get away from playing for and only thinking about the immediate pot in front of me and not if id win this hand with more bbs in it 35% of the time if i rasied instead of calling. You understand what im getting at? Is TOP the missing part to my puzzle? Does it explain the concepts at a level an average joe could understand? I was never really very good at maths and i dont play poker purly mathematicaly and when i read books i think they sort of help me play better by instinks rather than by purly following the maths concepts while playing. And so far it seems to be working, Im absolutly hammering the oppositon i currently play against. Which is mainly on $1-2 and £1-2 on the crypto, beating those games for 11 bb per 100 over the last 8000 hands.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

instincts
purely

Also, I have no idea what you just said.

[Radio]

eh?

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

Exactly.

[Radio]

It seems perfectly clear to me, anyway anybody who has read top and SSH care to comment?

[bwana devil]

Your question is not well formed. It is this area that needs work.

"I find it hard to get away from playing for and only thinking about the immediate pot in front of me and not if id win this hand with more bbs in it 35% of the time if i rasied instead of calling. You understand what im getting at? "

could you explain this again? I think I see where you're going w/ this but I am not sure. I think what you're talking about is looking at your winning bets other the session which might mean few pots rather than more pots with fewer bets.

Also a suggestion. Use the return key. It makes it much easier for other readers.

Also, if your record keeping is accurate don't get comfortable w/ anywhere near 11bb/100. You'll hate poker forever once reality sets in.

bwana

[Radio]

What im asking is simply this: To fully understand and get the most out of SSH You really need to have read and understood the concepts in TOP?

This this correct?

[KenProspero]

If you want to be a serious poker player, you have to understand the concepts discussed in TOP. If nothing else, this book is so influential, that if you haven't read it, you're likely to be missing some of the tools that others at your table have.

It's important to realize that SSH is not a 'beginner's' poker book. It assumes that you have some knowledge of poker (and by this I mean more than an understanding of the 'rules' of the game).

Understanding TOP is going to go a long way towards getting you there. To be honest, in a lot of ways, it's more important to understand TOP than SSHE if you want to be a successful player.

As to your specific question -- I suppose it's possible to gain the background needed for SSHE from other sources (or by figuring it out yourself) without having read TOP. however, you really need to get this knowledge somewhere, and TOP is probably the best 1-volume book out there to get this information.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
What im asking is simply this: To fully understand and get the most out of SSH You really need to have read and understood the concepts in TOP?

This this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

In short: Yes.
Slightly longer: Almost everything from TOP is by now incorporated in hundreds of other poker books. Much of it is repeated in SSH as it applies to loose games. But regardless of where you get the information you are going to have to understand all information from TOP to be a very good poker player.

[yeltzen]

Um, no. The concepts you need from TOP are discussed in SSH and how they apply to these types of games. The majority of TOP is aimed at players who play against people who have read and understand TOP.