Hand That Came Up In 1/2 NL Last Night

[KramerTM]

I was playing at an undisclosed location in NYC. The table had been crazy so far. I'd say the average pot size is about 70-90 dollars. Standard PF raise... somewhere in the neighborhood of 14-20 dollars. Standard! I had already tripled up with a river nut flush vs. 2 two-pairs earlier, so I had the table covered. It's worth mentioning that MOST of the LAG-ing monkeys had busted and went home already. Also, about 4 players at the table were unknown because two tables had just been condensed into one. I was planning on leaving right after this hand as the dealer annouced that time would be collected at its conclusion.

I peak at my hole cards and see A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the button. I think to myself, "Alright, at least this is a hand I can splash around with as my exiting hand."

Action: It gets limped to me (about 6 or 7 limpers). I figure, "Hey, let's build a little pot in case I hit big on the flop."

So I raise to $15. 2 folds and 4 calls.

Pot Size: $66

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

It gets checked around to me. I fire out $50. Now I've been the aggressor at the table, so I know I will get some action with this bet if anyone hit anything.

I get 2 calls, one from a guy who has been biding his time and playing fairly tight, and one from an unknown.

Pot Size: $216

Turn: [A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

All of the sudden, Tighty in first position wakes up and fires out $100. And on top of that, Unknown McUknownster quickly calls!

So I go into the tank. Did Tighty hit his J to make Aces and Jacks? What the hell does this other guy have that he smooth calls that bet? Diamond draw? Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] maybe?

I peak over at each guy's stack. Tighty had about $250 left, and Unknown has only about $150 or so. Great... not much folding equity if I make a big move. But I can't just let a diamond draw or a straight draw see the river card cheaply, can I?

So after deliberating for a minute or so, I mutter the dreaded words...

I'm all in.

Before I can even grab my chips, Tighty is already moving his chips into the pot. Unknown-guy looks a little queasy, but follows by sliding his last few stacks into the pot as well.

I flip up my cards and let the entire table see my A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

My eyes immediately dart across the table to see the two hands my opponents just turned up...

Well, before I reveal what they had, I'd like to hear some unbiased thoughts. Am I nuts for making this play? Feel free to speculate on what each opponent might have as well.

[ScottTheFish]

You think the tighty woke up and started betting his draw? Seems unlikely. He has some kind of made hand. AJ, 99 or 88. Of course this could be tainted by the fact that you told us they both called. You should have stopped after you pushed.

What could a tighty play like this that you're ahead of? AK or AQ is all I can think of, I didn't play with the guy, so I dont know how likely those are.

If you call the turn you can't fold the river with those stack sizes, so the push is fine if you're gonna play. I think you're behind, you've showed strength and the tighty keeps on coming.

[Slappz]

2 calls of ur all in? i dont think ur winning unless u fill up.

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
You think the tighty woke up and started betting his draw? Seems unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

no he said that tighty woke up because he might have hit a higher two pair or his straight.

[Wolffink]

My guess is that one guy has a made hand, probably a set, and the other is on a quality draw (perhaps flush draw + pair).

[KramerTM]

I should clarify one point. I call the guy "Tighty" because relatively-speaking, compared to the average player at the table, he was tight.

In fact, I had went heads up with him on a previous hand. I held Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in late position. 6 limpers including Tighty.

Flop ($12): Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to me. I bet $10 and only Tighty calls.

Turn ($32): [Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He checks. I check behind him.

River ($32):[Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]][7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He checks. I bet a tiny amount into pot, maybe $6. He raises $20 on top. I quickly call.

Tighty shows: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

So he is not a rock, by any means.

[deucesevenoff]

Alright, I'll take a stab at this one...gonna first try to put Tighty on a hand range (I'm weak tight so perhaps I can give some insight).

He checks the flop, then donk bets the turn when a quasi scare car hits. I don't think he has AA (would have raised PF), A8o (not good enough to play from EP except if suited...if he has top and bottom you probably would have heard about it on the flop), Q10 (would a tight player call with only a gutshot on the flop? If he's tight as you say he is, then the only time the jack hits him is when he has specifically Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and had the flush draw to boot).

AJ is a possibility but I think he would have either raised you or check-raised you on the flop with a hand like this.

We also cannot rule out a hand like 88 or 99 for a slowplayed set (JJ would have raised PF most likely). J10,JQ,JK of diamonds are three other possibilities since he would have called the flop with a large flush draw then woken up when he hit a pair to go along with his flush draw.

The only other possibilities are two possibilities are lower two pair hands like J8/J9/89. Of these three hands, I do not think J8 or J9 are likely since a tightie would have folded on the flop with the ace and flush draw out there.

So I don't know if I can put him on an exact hand here, but I think that 88, 99, J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] are a reasonable range (with 89 being an addional possibility).

Does this sound reasonable (not sure myself honestly)? If this is his range of hands, we are behind about as often as we are ahead. Given this hand range we are behind to the 12 combos of 88 and 99, as well as the one combo of Q10s. We are ahead of the 9 combos of 89 as well as the three combos of J10,JQ, and JK (though certainly not by much).

As far as the other guy is concerned, I think he is on some sort of flush or straight draw.

I think that the tightie's strange bet is more interesting than the other guy's call.

To me, it seems like we are behind. I'd most likely call the turn bet and hope to fill up. See what they do on the river and make a decision then.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
To me, it seems like we are behind. I'd most likely call the turn bet and hope to fill up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this. You shouldn't be throwing $100 into the hand without a realistic plan throughout.

If its pretty clear you're beat, then you fold on the turn. You don't call with a maximum of 4 outs (2 of which, might be no good if you someone has a higher set (jacks).

Was this full ring? I'm just trying to figure out why raise with A9s in the first place.

[Malachii]

I really don't like the preflop raise. You have don't have much of a preflop equity edge here, and there's no sense building a big pot here.

I'd pot flop, but that doesn't really matter all that much.

Turn is tough. Tightie might have a set here, but he might have 98s also if he's bad. I doubt he limps/calls a button raise with AJo but it's possible. I don't mind the allin raise, unknown seems to be on a draw and you really want to make him pay here. If you hadn't raised preflop you wouldn't be facing a decision for your whole stack here.

In summary, I basically like your postflop line given your preflop action, but I think if you had kept the pot small preflop you could just call on the turn and evaluate on the river, which I would like a lot more. Nh, although I have a sneeking suspicion that tighty has you slaughtered.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

This was an entirely too complicated description of a hand that was poorly played.

1) It is REALLY bad to raise that hand at this table given what you have said about it, you MUST call this hand, not raise. You shouldn't be putting more money into a pot with what is essentially a drawing hand without even seeing a flop. You need to control the size of this pot, becuase if you hit a draw, you'd rather not be paying so much to see it through.

2) Your flop bet was OK.

3) This all in is just plain atrocious. I'm sorry to come off as an arrogant ass, but please, never make this play again. You have given yourself EVERY POSSIBLE REASON to fold in your description. Its obvious that you're behind to 1, if not both of these guys. Just fold and wait for a better edge.

3) All that being said, I have a feeling that we're going to find out shortly that you filled up and walked away a big winner for the night. GL.

-JOTR