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#1
08-04-2005, 07:07 AM
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How do some players consistantly winning at NL playing garbage?
I have been successful at NL for about 6 months and have tightened up preflop as Ive learned and become more agressive post flop.I play on several sites that dont use pt, but on pt i have a 17.5 vpip,5.45% PFR and agression numbers of 2.54 1.63 and 1.56 on the flop turn and river respectively. and have won 7.7 BB/100 over 70,000 hands.( These stats are only for Party and the Cryptos, I also play at UB, Bodog, and Paradise)
However I play on Bodog and see Josh Arieh playing tons of flops and always winning. When Ive seen him on TV his post flop play is exceptional and he makes great reads. But Ive seen him calling 6x BB raises with 36s King 2 78 and such trash. How does he manage to play such garbage, play so many hands and win so consistantly? What is a great player like me doing that a decent player like me is not? 
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#2
08-04-2005, 07:45 AM
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Re: How do some players consistantly winning at NL playing garbage?
because his opponents can never put him on a hand, while he has excellent reading skills and postflop skills
he probably wins a lot of hands without showdown, which is the key
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#5
08-04-2005, 09:51 AM
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Re: How do some players consistantly winning at NL playing garbage?
Just knowing your players and betting your postflop hands well. If you bluff with the correct frequency in the different situations and have position, you can play many, many hands even for a raise.
If you play tight, then a lot of the situations they get into you'll never be in, so you don't have to worry about correct bluffing frequency, calling frequency, etc. Playing tight simplifies the game a little bit and you can win fine by doing that. But the guys who play more possibly (most do not) make more than the tight players cause they eek out edge postflop in marginal situations against the right opponents. You'll get this with experience and experimentation. See how your game evolves over the next year as you move up, and you'll probably find yourself loosening up if you experiment a little at certain tables. Remember the best players can still play in a tight gear if that's the most profitable way to play at that particular table at that time against those opponents.
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#6
08-04-2005, 09:54 AM
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Re: How do some players consistantly winning at NL playing garbage?
Some opponents are more predictable than others, just as some styles (including TAG, if you aren't careful) are easier to read.
Obviously the high stakes NL players know this, but they also know their opponents. At high level NL, reading hands and players is far and away the most important skill. No one will be able to explain to you what exactly Arieh does, only the logic behind it. Typically, the loose-aggressive-talented NL player's edge is in reading opponents and outplaying them postflop. The unpredictablity also works to bully many opponents into patterns and passivity.
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#7
08-04-2005, 12:07 PM
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Re: How do some players consistantly winning at NL playing garbage?
[ QUOTE ]
I understand they cant put him on a hand but the hand reading on his part has to be a lot harder online than live [/ QUOTE ] Not too much harder - physical tells and talking to players are only a small part of hand reading. Live increases the number of things you can use to get a read, but I'd imagine an expert would be able to read hands almost as well online.
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#8
08-04-2005, 01:03 PM
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He cold-called with
a raise of 6x the BB with King-deuce ?
Hmmmmmm. I could envision one situation - and there are likely some others I have not thought of - where this could be correct. If the raisor played horrendously post-flop, i.e. would NEVER bet out with less than top-pair or an over-pair, never check-raises, and will either fold to almost any bet made after he checked OR would routinely call with 2nd or 3rd pair (I'm not sure which of these is worse but both are terrible) I guess any two cards would be worth calling with providing there had been no other callers and the blinds were extremely unlikely to get involved. I've called allin raises with K-x/off in tournaments but I could count on one hand the number of times I've even seen a flop with this hand in a live game.
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#9
08-04-2005, 01:04 PM
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Re: How do some players consistantly winning at NL playing garbage?
That's what the player who limp reraised 3 handed with AQ vs my 47o thought.
She limps SB for 5, I make it 20, she pops it to 65, I call. Flop is 479, and I stack her. When you play reckless and wild, you get tons of action against bad players. I stacked two players who called my all-in with ace high. When the flop is low, I know they don't have any of it.
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