Help!

[FeliciaLee]

Okay, I need help. I need coaching.

This is hard for me to talk about. Not because I'm ashamed or have built up some facade that I'm a better player than I actually am. In fact, if anything, I am much harder on myself than most players I know.

My problems are two-fold. Number one is that I am not maximizing my profits in cash games. I'm a good player. I can win at 20/40, 40/80, and the couple of 50/100 sessions I played at Foxwoods. Ted Forrest and I have talked, and he seems to think I could hold my own at even higher limit games and used the 300/600 Razz game as an example. Ted might be delusional, btw [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway, although I win, I'm not maximizing my wins. I'm not charging other hands enough to stay with me, nor am I betting enough for value. I don't steal enough, either, not even in steal position when no one has opened the pot. I need to maximize my wins, while keeping my losses small (I'm pretty good at that part, lol). [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

My other problem, which is much worse because it so negatively affects my bankroll, is tournament play.

Up until the 2004 WSOP, I'd never played in an event more than $100 and had little real tournament experience. No problem, because I freerolled my events in the WSOP by playing satellites, and the structure was pretty good, so I was able to play a bit more of a cash game-type strategy. I still didn't cash, but I got awfully close in one of the Stud tourneys, and did not feel too outclassed.

Enter big buy-in tourneys with a poor structure... that is where my nightmare begins. I absolutely cannot adjust my strategy. On the surface, theoretically, I know what to do, how to play, but I can't force myself to do it. I have the rock, cash game player mentality.

I'm getting totally outplayed, outdrawn and outclassed. I am 100% dead money.

I need HELP!

I just got back from Commerce and the LAPC, where I was killed. In the end, we came home two weeks early. I absolutely could not win. I even forfeited the last two Stud tourneys ($1000 Stud & Stud 8) in order to come home and lick my wounds.

I lost every single satellite I played in, STT and MTT. I lost Stud, Stud 8, Omaha 8 and NLHE. I lost, then lost some more. I couldn't even win a STT with seven of the worst Stud players known to man.

Yes, I know there is a huge, huge luck factor to tournaments. I know the variance is outstanding. I know that I can go years without a win, blah, blah. These aren't the things I'm talking about, though. I'm being OUTPLAYED. I'm not adjusting.

Ray already turned me down for lessons a year ago, so I won't even bug him again. Some of the top players are not the type who would mesh with my style of play and my problems, although I know they are WCP themselves. I'm not sure who would be my best fit (besides Ray).

Last year I finished in the red about $3500. Doesn't sound like much, I know, for someone playing in big buy-in events, but it was greatly offset by my cash game wins, plus the fact that I am very frugal and always try to get into events playing sats.

At Commerce I would have been down about 5k, had it not been for the cash games and Glenn winning a few sats for my entries.

For once, I don't feel like I can compete. I don't even feel like experience will be a good teacher, because the only horribly structured big events I play in are in California, and I don't attend often enough to gain that kind of experience (LA is a five hour drive for me). Other venues have much better structures.

So I'm at a crossroads. I'm not going to "give up," I'm not willing to pack it in, but I'm also not willing to continue to be dead money at Commerce twice a year, when I feel that these events are still beatable and there is often a good overlay.

Advice?

HELP!

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[7stud]

[ QUOTE ]
Advice?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's sounds like you are playing too high to me. If you know what to do but can't force yourself to loosen up, the money is too important to you, and you need to move down in limits. Move to limits where the money is meaningless to you and re-educate yourself. Go play $.50-$1 stud and stay in with every hand until 7th street for one whole week straight. Then, take your new maniac persona up to $3-$6, and try playing the loosest games you can find.

Or, play the lowest entry fee tourneys you can find, and play like a maniac for 15 minutes, and then revert back to normal play for 15 minutes, and keep switching back and forth regardless of your cards--use a watch to time yourself.

You might learn something or you might not.

[greenage]

If the problem is tournaments with a poor structure, how about the Sit & Go’s at Party?

Just a thought. Good luck.

[Michael Emery]

First off, 7stud that was a very interesting response you gave that does have some merit. As soon as I read it I immediately thought of the essay titled "How to become a great player" in Poker Essay's I by Malmuth (pg.122 for those that wish to read it). Basically what it says is like usual, tight aggressive play will get the money. But playing in this manner wont allow you to put yourself in many situations where you are in great risk. However, if you were to play looser than whats correct you might begin to learn some things that you would have never learned.

Felicia, if I read one line right you do have a large hole in your game. You admitted to not charging other hands enough to stay with you, nor betting enough for value. That in itself is a huge gap and will especailly kill aspirations of playing higher limit stud than you do.

I know your an experienced stud player and dont have to tell you how slight of a favorite the best stud hand at a moment usually is. To give an example say your playing 50-100 and you have (K6)K and are called by (4A)4. You completed on third, bet fourth, bet fifth, but now you give your opponenet (who hasnt raised or improved in sight) a free card on sixth heads up becuase your still unimproved. If your saying your making mistakes even as slight as this, missing a fraction of a bet here and there. You have a problem. Since you play higher limits your profit is going to have to come mainly from outplaying your opponents. Higher limit players are going to make lesser mistakes and play better on average. Because of this it is crucial that you dont miss "fraction" value bets.

I actually think I have improved my game considerably over the past two years. One large factor as I look back now is that I am value betting a lot more, especially on the river. One of the best players I've ever played with is a woman. She makes considerable money at the game but I've always thought she could make more if she value bet more. For example this player will almost always check a large pair heads-up against a smaller large pair on the river if shes unimproved. She then calls if her opponent bets. What she fails to realize is she'd make more overall by betting the large pair unimproved in many instances. This is another example of missing a "fraction" value bet. I'm not sure what kind of fractions your missing, but every time you stop and check, think through and make sure a bet wouldnt be better.

There's a 300-600 Razz game? Who plays in this game and where is it? Razz is such a simple game (compared to other forms of poker) that I cant believe one expert would have any type of significant advantage over another. As for tournaments, like you mentioned yourself its a diffrent ballgame from cash games. Going years before you finally see the results is not out of the question.

As far as a plan to help you I'm not sure what to say. I know like me you've read and reread every poker book on the market. A higher limit coach might be the best idea if you could find someone willing. Would Ted look over your game as a favor? I actually even have wanted a coach to look over my game. I just dont know any high limit players (even though I'd be willing to pay a lot of money) that would do so. I still feel like I struggle with when I want hands in and out in large overante stud games. This is a topic I would love to consult with a world class player about. I wish I could say that you would find the answers on this stud forum. But while we have some very good regular posters, none of us would compare to getting Zee or Forrest to look over your game. I wish you the best of luck.

Mike Emery

[Michael Davis]

Felicia,

To be honest, I'm not sure there's anyone here besides Ray qualified to help you. You're looking for someone who plays better than you (I assume), and I don't think it is evident that such a player exists on this board. Possibly snakehead, but I don't think he plays much stud, although I'm sure he plays at an expert level.

I'd like to give you a more constructive suggestion. Perhaps seeking out Sklansky?

-Michael

[BeerMoney]

Here's the thing.. The people who are playing at the higher limits know how to play tight also.

[timmer]

and they are not beyond baiting a worse player into their games.

At the upper levels playing "Cards" just dont get it done. You must play "Poker".

Start playing "Poker"

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
and they are not beyond baiting a worse player into their games.

At the upper levels playing "Cards" just dont get it done. You must play "Poker".

Start playing "Poker"

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Timmer, I pretty much just wrote these same words in another post.

[FeliciaLee]

This is actually something I've considered several times. Not only in Stud, but HE, too (if you think I'm a rock in a Stud game, watch me play HE, lol).

From the first time I read about Daniel's "party day" a couple of years ago or so, I thought that I should try the playing every hand suggestion. I'm not sure why I haven't done it, except that subconsciously I'm probably terrified of it, and it's subsequent results.

Thanks for seconding this suggestion!

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[FeliciaLee]

Excellent suggestion, really! I hadn't even thought of it.

Thanks!