Comments please O8b hand

Beavis68 · #1 02-02-2005, 12:35 PM

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (11.20 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13.20 BB

Moneyline · #2 02-02-2005, 02:15 PM

Preflop: Given the circumstances (amount of callers + the stakes) I think your raise is fine, but most tables won't have so many players willing to call 2 bets cold. Consider limp/raising here unless you know a raise will be succesful.

Flop: I think it's normally a bad idea to draw to a runner/runner low, but here I would probably call too. You're getting 13: 1, you have counterfeit protection, and your call closes the action.

Turn: I'd probably do the same.

River: Bad card. Your 2 pair is ruined and so is your low. IMO time to fold.

Beavis68 · #3 02-02-2005, 05:05 PM

I did some pretty in-depth math on this hand based on it being heads-up fomr the turn to river, and haveing to call a bet on the turn.

Assuming you are heads-up with a high-hand, this call looks worth about +.13BBs (this is counting 5-4 giving me a scoop but that is less than .02BB).

I wasn't worried about the river fold - thanks for the comments and advice.

johnnybeef · #4 02-02-2005, 05:15 PM

with this starting hand it is more than likely that you will only be playing for half of the pot, your preflop raise in a higher stakes game will likely eliminate many hands but here i think that there may be enough people that would be willing to cold call a raise that may warrent doing so. all in all i think a call would be a better play as it will give opponents odds to call. the flop missed you completely, you need to hit runner runner for 1/2 the pot. imo its time to fold. on the turn, you hit 2 pair which is likely beat as the only thing that you can beat is 6's and 3's. river card is terrible for you and you correctly fold. here is why a fold is correct on the flop, many times (like what we have here) the turn card can suck you in just enough to keep you in the hand even though it is a losing situation, by folding a flop that hits you like the one did here you will eliminate these situations which can be bankroll killers. that being said, for those who are learning the game, this is an excellent example of a flop that may hit you but not enough to continue, great post.

johnny

Cleveland Guy · #5 02-02-2005, 05:32 PM

On the turn you are only beat by a set, or K6, KJ, or K3.

your 2 pair here with a nut low draw (no more counterfit) is pretty good IMO.

I was wondering about a turn raise?

Yes that river card sucks, and given the way you played the hand, I would have folded the river too, but with 2 pair and a nut low draw, I generally like my equity in these low limits.

Gitz · #6 02-02-2005, 06:01 PM

Don't raise the pre-flop and then dump it after the flop. By raising the pre-flop your putting yourself (inside your head) in a pos'n where you almost have to call the flop costing you another bet. Also you may have eliminated limpers with A-3-xx or other variants that weren't as powerful as your starting hand. I find I make more money by just limping in these LL games and then raising on the turn or river.

Paul

Buzz · #7 02-02-2005, 07:33 PM

Beavis - My first reaction, upon reading your hand, was, "Rats, you've got a rainbow hand here."

I hate rainbow hands in this game. Rainbow ace-deuce-trey with a jack in a loose game is mostly only going to be good for low, if anything. And then you'll get quartered or sixthed roughly two hands out of every five.

Just in terms of low, you'll end up with the nut low 43.14% and any low 49.52%.

Wonder how you can end up with a non-nut low holding A23J? The board on the river is something like 2367X and you have a live ace. Meanwhile A4XX, A5XX and 45XX beat you for low and anyone with A2XX, A3XX, A6XX or A7XX ties you.

You think that starting hand is great? Think again. Most of the time you don't even end up qualifying for low. And when you do, it's not always roses.

But although not great, you certainly should want to see the flop with A23Jn. I have it pegged at about the 95th percentile in terms of earning potential. I need to add that I don't think I'd achieve that level of success with the hand by popping it before the flop. (Yes, I realize you get one extra bet from some opponents by raising on that first betting round, and yes, I realize you probably have the best starting hand at the table, even though it's a rainbow).

There are plenty of better poker players than me who would raise before the flop with this hand. And in some tournament situations or even ring game situations I might raise before the flop with it myself. But generally I'd just limp.

I think you played the rest of the hand fine. (Without the pre-flop raise, I think it's an easy fold to a bet on this flop).

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Beavis68 · #8 02-02-2005, 08:40 PM

Thanks all, raising with this hand this early is not typical play for me, probably a combination of boredom and frustration. I should just say I was mixing up my game - does that sound better?

I have been card dead for so long in O8/b that this hand seems like a monster, I guess that 10BB/100 hands stretch is evening now now.

domester · #9 02-04-2005, 05:44 PM

Buzz,

I like your replies to posts, but I'm starting to wonder "How do you have winning sessions when you seem to disapprove of 50% of your A2XX hands and fold post-flop unless you have nut low draw and no less than top two?" I think my starting hand choice is reasonably tight, but you... you're tighter than a squirrel's ass in February! Seems as if you're willing to enter only three pots in an hour on the assumption that you'll win all of them and they'll more than cover your blinds for that period. Please explain.

Buzz · #10 02-05-2005, 09:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like your replies to posts,

[/ QUOTE ]

Domester - Thank you.

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm starting to wonder "How do you have winning sessions when you seem to disapprove of 50% of your A2XX hands and fold post-flop unless you have nut low draw and no less than top two?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I’m not sure how to reply because I’m not sure quite where you got that (incorrect) idea.

[ QUOTE ]
I think my starting hand choice is reasonably tight,

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you, if that pleases you.

[ QUOTE ]
....Seems as if you're willing to enter only three pots in an hour on the assumption that you'll win all of them and they'll more than cover your blinds for that period. Please explain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain what?

However did you get the idea that I only enter three pots an hour? However did you get the idea that I assume I’ll win all of them and they’ll cover my blinds for that period?

Perhaps you have me mixed up with someone else.

Is there something that is incorrect or misleading in the post I wrote to which you are responding?

Buzz