QQ UTG vs. good players

burningyen · #1 12-06-2005, 02:24 PM

MP2 and BB are solid aggressive players, SB is a LAG caller donk. My image this session is tight and unusually aggro (VPIP of something like 15% and PFR of 11%).

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+2 ($158.05)
MP1 ($558.35)
MP2 ($269.80)
MP3 ($98)
CO ($220.25)
Button ($216.45)
SB ($66.30)
BB ($112.85)
Hero ($171.40)
UTG+1 ($119.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $7, 3 folds, MP2 calls $7, 3 folds, SB calls $6, BB calls $5.

Flop: ($28) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $25, Hero ?

TommyO · #2 12-06-2005, 02:50 PM

Wow, tough spot. You've still got MP2 to act and if you're going to continue with this hand I think you have to raise. Once you raise though, you'll probably be going to the felt if you decide to take it to showdown. I probably raise this to $50 and fold to a re-raise.

beavens · #3 12-06-2005, 02:57 PM

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Wow, tough spot. You've still got MP2 to act and if you're going to continue with this hand I think you have to raise. Once you raise though, you'll probably be going to the felt if you decide to take it to showdown. I probably raise this to $50 and fold to a re-raise.

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minraise?

granted i know it's a sizeable raise, but doesnt this seem sketchy?

4_2_it · #4 12-06-2005, 03:03 PM

I've been thinking about this one for a while. I think I want a cheap showdown. I think I call here with plans to call down decent bets (bets I would have made anyway). I think we are up against 99-JJ or the wheel. If you are raise (which is not a bad play) and are called then you have committed your stack to the hand.

beavens · #5 12-06-2005, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this one for a while. I think I want a cheap showdown. I think I call here with plans to call down decent bets (bets I would have made anyway). I think we are up against 99-JJ or the wheel. If you are raise (which is not a bad play) and are called then you have committed your stack to the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is something i need to learn.. calling down with good hands when you're unsure and facing aggression.. normally i'd try to get it all in and hope im not up against KK-AA, 2pr or the set.

4_2_it · #6 12-06-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this one for a while. I think I want a cheap showdown. I think I call here with plans to call down decent bets (bets I would have made anyway). I think we are up against 99-JJ or the wheel. If you are raise (which is not a bad play) and are called then you have committed your stack to the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is something i need to learn.. calling down with good hands when you're unsure and facing aggression.. normally i'd try to get it all in and hope im not up against KK-AA, 2pr or the set.

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This looks like a WA/WB situation. Not many cards are likely to help either one of you so getting to showdown cheap is the way to go. Villain might keep on betting, but most villains under bet their monsters (don't want to scare you off) so you probably get off cheaper when you are behind and if you are ahead you still win a nice pot. If villain checks a blank turn (and we check behind)and a blank river then we have an interesting decision, don't we? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

beavens · #7 12-06-2005, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this one for a while. I think I want a cheap showdown. I think I call here with plans to call down decent bets (bets I would have made anyway). I think we are up against 99-JJ or the wheel. If you are raise (which is not a bad play) and are called then you have committed your stack to the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is something i need to learn.. calling down with good hands when you're unsure and facing aggression.. normally i'd try to get it all in and hope im not up against KK-AA, 2pr or the set.

[/ QUOTE ]

This looks like a WA/WB situation. Not many cards are likely to help either one of you so getting to showdown cheap is the way to go. Villain might keep on betting, but most villains under bet their monsters (don't want to scare you off) so you probably get off cheaper when you are behind and if you are ahead you still win a nice pot. If villain checks a blank turn (and we check behind)and a blank river then we have an interesting decision, don't we? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

a blank turn and i think i'm coming out for 2/3 pot.

#8 12-06-2005, 03:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this one for a while. I think I want a cheap showdown. I think I call here with plans to call down decent bets (bets I would have made anyway). I think we are up against 99-JJ or the wheel. If you are raise (which is not a bad play) and are called then you have committed your stack to the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is something i need to learn.. calling down with good hands when you're unsure and facing aggression.. normally i'd try to get it all in and hope im not up against KK-AA, 2pr or the set.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a really hard decision for me. I think it becomes much easier with any kind of decent read on villains normal flop bets, b/c I think u are usually against a set or overpair less than yours. Seems like a good/tough player could value bet his set and milk us for some money with "decent bets", or just push sensing weakness from Hero because of lack of aggression. How many people raise this flop and then fold to a push? What do you do when u call flop and villain pushes turn?

theweatherman · #9 12-06-2005, 03:45 PM

I'd say call and reevaluate the turn. You cant raise here without committing yourself. Villian was given 3-1 pf and so could be holding almost any two, including a crap 2pair set wheel, or (if your lucky) mid/high pp.

The more i think about it themore i like a call. if the turn is scary its an easy fold, if the turn is a blank (by that i mean somthing like an offsuit 9) then you are in the same sitaution of wa/wb but you are able to give worse odds when WA

wdeadwyler · #10 12-06-2005, 04:03 PM

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I'd say call and reevaluate the turn. You cant raise here without committing yourself. Villian was given 3-1 pf and so could be holding almost any two, including a crap 2pair set wheel, or (if your lucky) mid/high pp.

The more i think about it themore i like a call. if the turn is scary its an easy fold, if the turn is a blank (by that i mean somthing like an offsuit 9) then you are in the same sitaution of wa/wb but you are able to give worse odds when WA

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This situation sucks in general. Raising to 75 here doesnt commit you, but it sure is a waste of money IMO. Calling is ok, but I think you have to fold the turn if he bets again. I hate the flop raise here, and I feel strongly that this hand is NOT WA/WB, as villain could easily have something like 56s, 55, 66, etc, or be taking a stab with air (with or without an ace in his hand). This is a REALLY tough spot, and Im gonna go with call, fold to turn bet.

Can we get some regulars to post about this one?

PS: This belonds in Mid Stakes and I would like to hear their thoughts, as the someone can lead here with a large range of hands and put is in a really hard place. I would not be surprised if some of the Mid Stakes regulars advocated folding this flop.