Commerce 20/40 NL Hand

[Jeffage]

Uh...no. Think about the action for a second. Villian raises the river to 5k with 4 hearts on board. Now his opponent, after a hollywood pause, comes over the top for 6k more. If there is a straight flush possible and your opponent, who was in the BB, is not a drooling moron, he MUST have it with this action. I can think of a lot of better things to do with $6,000 than waste it by calling here. And I'm sure the very good player could to.

Jeff

[fsuplayer]

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It was supposed to be a nice payday, but I only got half of what I was owed. The villain did not pay me off with his K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

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Because he didn't have it or because he laid it down? If he laid it down, you must have a ridiculously obvious tell of some kind.

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this is a pretty easy laydown.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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It was supposed to be a nice payday, but I only got half of what I was owed. The villain did not pay me off with his K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

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Because he didn't have it or because he laid it down? If he laid it down, you must have a ridiculously obvious tell of some kind.

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this is a pretty easy laydown.

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Reading this hand and FoxwoodsFiend's hand one after the other makes for some very weird reading.

[cero_z]

Hi Jeffage,

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Uh...no. Think about the action for a second. Villian raises the river to 5k with 4 hearts on board. Now his opponent, after a hollywood pause, comes over the top for 6k more. If there is a straight flush possible and your opponent, who was in the BB, is not a drooling moron, he MUST have it with this action. I can think of a lot of better things to do with $6,000 than waste it by calling here. And I'm sure the very good player could to.


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Thank you for injecting some reason into this thread. No good player is paying somebody off in this spot without some crazy context that might've set him up; OP is super-fortunate to have gotten the 5K raise out of him. What does Villain think: OP will pay him off 5K with the Qh on a 4-flush board? My best guess is he's trying to represent a big bluff, and doesn't really expect to be paid off anyway, so why not go big with the "nuts?" What a rude awakening he must've gotten.

Also, I really doubt all of these folks who are saying they'd bet the turn big; I think most of you would check-raise right here. It's easy to say now, though, when you know he has the 2nd nuts. What if he had 2 pair? Then you might be willing to check in the hopes he'd fill up.

[gomberg]

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Also, I really doubt all of these folks who are saying they'd bet the turn big; I think most of you would check-raise right here. It's easy to say now, though, when you know he has the 2nd nuts. What if he had 2 pair? Then you might be willing to check in the hopes he'd fill up.

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I would bet out on the turn there a vast majority of the time (I also posted that before seeing results). I may bet 1/2 pot instead of full pot, but with deep stacks and the villain in position, I think you get a call against a set. You're only losing value vs. 2-pair or a pure bluff - but you have a chance to win a huge pot against a set / K flush, which is what you aim for.

[kagame]

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Would anybody play the river differently? How much time would you take before you push all in, or raise?

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[John Ho]

You don't need a tell here. It's obviously a straight flush against any normal player.

So the point of the original post was how do you maximize value here against a very good player.

I would have checkraised him a huge overbet on the turn representing a bluff. Then I can safely move in on the river and make him think hard rather than put in multiple raises and give away the hand.

Of course if you do it this way you'll only get paid off by a K hearts or a full house if he can see the river for cheaper.

But still the check raise overbet on the turn sounds right.

[John Ho]

I agree with your post except one aspect. A huge bet on the turn with that board will usually get a set to fold. So you run the risk of losing him if the river paired the board.

But I agree...either lead big or I like check raising big better.

[italianstang]

Stop posting big hands on here just to look cool Vic. Congratulations lately, I am jealous, keep it up.

[cero_z]

Hi John,

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I would have checkraised him a huge overbet on the turn representing a bluff.

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Yes.