Second nut high, second nut low

I’m just learning O8 so please be gentle.

Playing 4/8 limit live this morning (second ever session) with a mix of reasonably observant and unobservant loose players. The reasonably observant of them will have noticed that I was playing far tighter than anyone else at the table (I was basically playing the starting hands on o8poker.com loosening up very slightly on or near the button, which by the standards of California live games seems to make me the tightest player ever). Of the two players that matter most, the big blind is one of the better, more observant players at the table and the cutoff has just sat down.

With four limpers to me on the button I limp with A456 suited in clubs to the ace. The blinds complete and we go seven to the flop of Q-7-3 rainbow (one club). It is checked to me and I bet partly due to the strength of my hand and partly to increase the chances of a free river card if I want one. There are three callers.

The turn is an offsuit 8 and the cutoff bets. I call as does the big blind and there are three of us left for the river of a 5, giving me the second nut hand for both high and low. The big blind checks, the cutoff bets and I am torn between calling and raising.

Grateful for thoughts about what I should do, as well as any comments on other streets if you have them. Sorry if this is ridiculously basic, but I have no idea which makes most sense.

[Big_Jim]

Go for the overcall. He's not folding a nut hand, and he probably won't call 2 cold without a real strong hand, either.

[Buzz]

Dalston - Big Blind is chasing with something! The question is, "What?"

Looks to me as though Big blind might have either the second nut high or low. If so, you don't want to get quartered for either high or low. Therefore, if you think there's any chance Big Blind might fold a second nut low or second nut high to a double bet, then you raise.

With the possibility of more betting to come, Big Blind might fold a non-nut hand to a double bet. Big Blind might smell a rat, but it's a tough call if only holding the second nuts one way or the other. (If you just call, Big Blind, if holding the second nut high or low, will probably also call a single bet, because of the size of the pot).

In addition, if Cut Off and Big Blind are both going the same one way, then you also gain by raising.

You're risking an extra bet or two in an attempt to secure half the pot. I think it's well worth the gamble.

By all means, raise.

Buzz

Spot on, Buzz. I thought for a second, called and the BB overcalled. Ended up with half the pot quartering for both high with the cutoff (who was playing the powerhouse hand Q764n!) and low with the big blind. A raise would have got him out (he called saying 'since it is only one bet' or somesuch) and in retrospect he would have bet a nut high on the river and an A2 either on the flop or the river. In retrospect, I think a raise would have been right but wanted to check it was not just results-orientated thinking.

I think if the positioning in the hand had been different (ie BB bets, cutoff calls) then no-one folds to a raise and it is best just to call. But the combination of the BB having checked once and being able to make it two cold to him would have made it worth a raise.