5-10 PL Anyone like this?

Philuva · #1 03-14-2005, 03:10 PM

Opponent is fairly aggro. So his preflop raise and flop bet mean very little.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($1036.75)
MP1 ($1067)
MP2 ($1115)
CO ($3335)
Button ($1803)
Hero ($1643.25)
BB ($1042)
UTG ($655)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $5.
4 folds, CO raises to $35, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $30, 1 fold.

Flop: ($80) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $77, Hero raises to $308, CO calls $231.

Turn: ($696) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $693, CO calls $693.

River: ($2082) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $607.25 (all-in), CO calls $607.25.

Final Pot: $2689.25

Comments on all streets appreciated.

AZK · #2 03-14-2005, 03:14 PM

I don't like the turn. I probably bet a little less on the flop too. Are you worried when an aggro player starts calling you down? Something seems wrong, these guys are normally pumpers... I don't feel good when he calls my river bet.

The.Filth · #3 03-14-2005, 03:51 PM

I'm very curious to what your opponent had. Can you post the showdown?

fnord_too · #4 03-14-2005, 04:16 PM

Let me add my pedestrian comments since I think it helps my game to verbalize these things:

Pre-flop: Looks fine

Flop: Looks fine.

Turn: Here's where I have questions. Obviously you have to call for all your chips if raised, so the question is what is the best line? Checking seems wrong to me, so it really comes down to making a pot sized bet or pushing. The pot sized bet lets you get away on the river if you don't improve, but you make it a lot easier for villain to call. Villain should probably push here, since what could he be calling with that he will lay down on the river getting > 4:1 on his call? If he is ahead, he might as well not give you the chance to get away from a busted draw, and if he's behind, he's going to double you up anyway. So if it is right for villain to set you in if he is going to call, and you have to call for all your chips, isn't it better to push the turn? Now checking is looking like it might be a viable route, but that is just inviting a pot size bet that you would probably be wrong to call and wrong to push. The more I think about it, the more I think the only two options are checking and folding to a bet > 1/2 pot or pushing the turn. I like pushing the turn more.

River: Looks good.

Philuva · #5 03-14-2005, 04:21 PM

Hey fnord, you might have missed it, but this is pot limit. Given that, what would do you think about the turn?

Philuva · #6 03-14-2005, 04:27 PM

I will post the results and my thoughts later. I would like to get a few more responses before that though.

KaneKungFu123 · #7 03-14-2005, 04:42 PM

it looks like youre drawing dead.

fnord_too · #8 03-14-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey fnord, you might have missed it, but this is pot limit. Given that, what would do you think about the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I did miss it. That would explain why all the bets are exactly pot sized, which I thought odd...

I am not real sure but here are my new turn thoughts:

Pot is ~693 and you have ~1300 left. I think betting enough so that you can push a raise (or get away from the hand) and push the river regardless is good. I think a bet of about $350, maybe $300 is the lowest you can go (though not the best amount) given the flop action. Let me think about this for a minute. Let's say you can get away with a $200 bet. Then if he calls, you could push on the river, but you would probably not want to push the river in any case (it looks suspicious if you missed, but seems too much for a lesser hand to call if you hit since hitting obviously entails a scare card coming).

So let's say you bet $350, then you have $950 left, and the pot is ~1400, giving you ~2.5:1 on your money if vilain decides to raise. You probably have to lay that down, but that may not be horrible. Then on the river, your push would be 950 into a 1400 pot, still, probably too big.

Let's look at $450, then the pot is 1600 and you have 850 left, and I think are getting the right price to call. Also, that means your push on the end if you hit is giving someone very tempting odds to call.

I think under betting the pot is slightly better than potting it. I like $450 - $500 since I don't like the idea of getting pushed out by an aggressive opponent on the turn, but I would like to save some money if he does not set me in and I miss (I don't see a lot of merit in a river bluff, but I could be wrong here).

Again, I don't have a lot of big bet experience outside of tournaments, so read my line with an extremely critical eye.

JFB37 · #9 03-14-2005, 04:51 PM

I agree, it is pretty tough to put Villian on a hand here. Would he really call the raise on the flop with, say, AJ of hearts? Your raise, out of position, makes it look like you have a set. I think maybe he flopped middle set and didn't reraise because he didn't know whether you had the top or the bottom

KaneKungFu123 · #10 03-14-2005, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, it is pretty tough to put Villian on a hand here. Would he really call the raise on the flop with, say, AJ of hearts? Your raise, out of position, makes it look like you have a set. I think maybe he flopped middle set and didn't reraise because he didn't know whether you had the top or the bottom

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with the turn bet is that if its called, he is commited if a flush card hits on the river when he could aready be drawing dead.

i like the flop play, but i am checking the turn, and probally folding.