LAG Image play, calling minraise on flop with nothing

AceHiStation · #1 10-31-2005, 01:24 AM

I should fold here preflop, but got a little bored and was running real well. I have been potting every flop I raised when checked to and haven't bet less than the pot yet. I bet the pot here putting villain on two overs. As a LAG there's nothing worse than getting raised on a flop when you have nothing. I decide to make the call intending to check/fold the turn no matter what. Anyone mind the image play? I replicated the exact same hand with the goods later and was paid off nicely and I'll include that hand below.

Thanks,
-Ace

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($374.25)
CO ($409.75)
Button ($306.50)
SB ($980)
Hero ($1543.25)
UTG ($1628)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, CO raises to $40, 2 folds, Hero calls $30.

Flop: ($85) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $82, CO raises to $164, Hero calls $82.

Turn: ($413) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO pushes all-in, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $413

Results in white below: 
No showdown. CO wins $413. 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO ($173.75)
Button ($557.50)
SB ($343.50)
BB ($1015)
Hero ($1419.75)
MP ($1782.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
Hero raises to $36, 2 folds, Button calls $36, 2 folds.

Flop: ($87) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $84, Button raises to $168, Hero calls $84.

Turn: ($423) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO pushes all-in, Hero calls $353.50.

River: ($776.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $776.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9s 9d (two pair, nines and sevens).
Button has Ac Jh (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $776.50. 

Converter is screwed up, so ignore pot sizes

radioheadfan · #2 10-31-2005, 01:36 AM

You are a genius.

tommo · #3 10-31-2005, 01:42 AM

Do you think your opponents notice when you call a check/raise on the flop and fold the river? If you're playing really laggy I don't think this call should really be improving your image. Seems more to me like your just calling with 6 outs planning on giving it away... Was the villain in question playing back at you a lot?

creedofhubris · #4 10-31-2005, 02:05 AM

His stack is too small to call the $80 just to set him up for later IMO.

AceHiStation · #5 10-31-2005, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
His stack is too small to call the $80 just to set him up for later IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not setting him up, I'm setting everyone at the table up. I make so many continuation bets that if the table sees me fold to a minraise on a flop I see people trying to min-checkraise me off my continuation bets. I'm paying 8 BBs to cover my ass for the next 30 minutes of the session(at least).

psuasskicker · #6 10-31-2005, 11:45 AM

You don't think villain would have done the exact same thing in hand #2 if you'd just folded on the flop in the first hand? I bet he would have.

I make so many continuation bets that if the table sees me fold to a minraise on a flop I see people trying to min-checkraise me off my continuation bets.

What's the problem with that? Adjust your game to it. Worst case you should be able to pull the same move on everyone else and save the 8 BB here...

I'm paying 8 BBs to cover my ass for the next 30 minutes of the session(at least).

By showing them that you'll call them on the flop and fold to the turn aggro? I don't see how what you did sends anyone a different message than you sent them by calling and folding on the turn. I think you set up the play that actually happened, and think that you would have set it up exactly the same had you simply folded on that flop, only you wouldn't have lost $80 doing it.

Granted you got that $80 back, but if someone else pulled the move, you'd also have an extra $80 if they had you covered.

- C -

AceHiStation · #7 10-31-2005, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You don't think villain would have done the exact same thing in hand #2 if you'd just folded on the flop in the first hand? I bet he would have.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, at the 5/10 level I don't expect players to randomly get all-in with Ace-high and no read. We had been butting heads a few times and he felt he could push me off my hand. fslex hit the nail on the head, I was getting allin on any non-A turn card. So ~7% chance I get stacked while getting all-in with the worst of it, 93% chance I get allin with a heavy favorite. I'm curious what limits you play at if you think people just make this play regardless of reads.

kagame · #8 11-01-2005, 07:39 AM

i really like your style sir

Chaostracize · #9 10-31-2005, 02:31 AM

Yuck.

Hand 1, I don't like betting out here oop. This is an expensive habit. It's a very tame board, but unless villain is raising ATC pf, this bet will make you broke over the long run. That said, his raise is so rarely a bluff, and unless you've seen him use it before, just fold. If you think this means you'll get run over, that means one thing. Switch gears. Don't pay 8 bbs because you think he might have nothing when you plan on just giving up in the turn. Besides, what do you do with you spike your T or 9, are you really just going to give it up or are you going to bet out "just to make sure". Dump it to the first raise.

In hand 2, if you think he's bluffing you need to make your decision on the flop what you're doing with the hand. Just cold calling his min-raise isn't good, unless you are psychic and you know a tame turn card will come out and he'll donk push his whole stack in. 99, in this spot, is too susceptible to too many turn cards. If you think you are ahead, then push the flop, because stacks sizes will leave him with what, 1.5 the pot, right? I think that's right, don't see the numbers in front of me. But if you do call, I think you need to bet out. And once he pushes I fold. I think you just got very lucky on this hand. It won't happen very often that he has nothing there.

kagame · #10 10-31-2005, 08:24 AM

good grief

hand 1: continuation bet, you wont go broke playing aggressive poker shorthanded, what are you thinking, hes representing an overpair and AK or whatever will fold

hand 2: hes inducing a bluff, if he bets strongly this will not work, do you see why? if a paint card comes he plays poker, some are capable of this