Check Raising Alternatives

[Maalox149]

Awhile ago a read a post by Jason Strasser, a great post i might add, about maximizing your profit when you have a strong hand. It advocated check calling/leading on the turn or leading on the flop as opposed to check raising. I've been thinking about this post, and I was wondering what you're supposed to do if the shoe is on the other foot.

What if you're the one who flops a medium strength hand and raised PF, and an opponent leads into you?

Or similarly, what if your opponent check calls on the flop/leads the turn?

I've been in this situation a few times myself and it is very confusing to try to deal with. It seems in this situation that the lead bet or check/call/lead is VERY unlikely to be a bluff, or a bet with a medium strength hand, as you are leading into a raiser. Is there something I am missing here, can/should this bet be made with weaker hands than sets, 2pairs etc?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Good question.

First off, remember that a lot more of your opponents have read Harrington on Hold 'Em than Strassa's post on 2+2. Brunson actually recommends the same thing as Strassa, but he gives it less attention and fewer people seem to be aware of that. So, don't automatically assume your opponents are being tricky. When they lead into you, it's more likely to be a probe bet than a pot-builder. With a solid hand, you need to raise enough that they don't have the odds to draw.

If you have a marginal hand and genuinely think you are behind, you can just call and see the turn. Villain's probe bet is likely to be giving you very good odds, and combined with the possibility that he is bluffing, this is usually enough for me to take a turn with an overcard and gut shot.

If you hit your hand, it's probably well concealed and Villain will pay you off if he's got anything. If Villain checks or makes another weak bet, you can probably take it away from him now. And if he makes a real bet, you can re-evaluate and probably fold. The important thing is not to go looking for monsters under the bed.

[nightlyraver]

One thing to consider:

I have observed some players use the check-call/lead the turn in order to draw to a winning hand. In fact, I have done it myself. Let me illustrate an example...

Villian (t3800) open-raises to 300 from position 4.
CO calls from for 300.
SB folds.
Hero (t4000) calls 200 from the BB w/ J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

The flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot=t950)

Hero checks.
Villian bets 400.
CO folds.
Hero calls 400.

The J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] falls on the turn (pot=1750)

Hero bets 700
Villian ???


It's obvious that this bet by Hero has many good points going for it. First, Villian may have been bluffing, will fold to this bet, and Hero avoids a potentially difficult dicision if Villian decides to bluff at it again should Hero check. Second, Villian may just call with a hand like KQ and Hero is almost guaranteeing himself the right price with this bet. Third, Villian probably will ditch some slightly better hands if the board were different and it were possible that Villian has a PP that is lower than TP but higher than Jacks.

Going back to your question, you can see how this move with a somewhat marginal hand makes Villians dicision very difficult. If you were Villian, and you knew what Hero was holding, the correct move would be to put in a big raise no matter what you were holding. But even with a hand like AQ or even an overpair, you will hesitate since the bet seems misplaced, representing a monster affraid of missing a bet.

This is not that difficult to combat. Without a read, you usually can't raise, but if you pay attention you will notice who is doing this with just a draw (it happens somewhat frequently at the $10 and $20 MTT's that I play). Once you identify the player, usually bump it on the turn. If he raises again you can be certain that your opponent has more than just a draw.

[Maalox149]

Thanks for the replies, these responses have really cleared some things up for me.