Weird Party $109 hand: TT UTG+1

burningyen · #1 10-27-2005, 01:03 AM

No reads. I had just won a big pot with a big starting hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Button (t1475)
SB (t715)
BB (t1315)
UTG (t3090)
Hero (t4290)
UTG+2 (t845)
MP1 (t1525)
MP2 (t1943)
MP3 (t2907)
CO (t1055)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t150, Hero raises to t300, 8 folds, UTG calls t150.

Flop: (t825) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t825) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t150, Hero raises to t300, UTG calls t150.

River: (t1425) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

UTG checks, Hero bets t150, UTG raises to t800

Pot: t2375
UTG has t1690 left
Hero has t3540 left

Hero ?

DDBeast · #2 10-27-2005, 01:12 AM

Raise to more like 600 pf, the minraise with a limper is terrible.
Flop check is fine.
Why raise the turn? He only calls with a jack.
I would bet bigger on the river, and pay off a raise. You've shown weakness and he might be taking advantage of it.

billyjex · #3 10-27-2005, 01:20 AM

I stopped reading after the preflop action. It's really bad.

burningyen · #4 10-27-2005, 01:22 AM

I'm not going to defend the PF minraise too strenuously. I almost never do it, but my thinking at the time was that the rest of the table was so short relative to the blinds that the minraise would give me all the information and isolation power I needed. Essentially I thought (maybe incorrectly) that it was either push or fold for everyone except UTG.

I disagree that only a Jack calls the turn minraise.

I'll wait for more responses before I comment on the river. A major consideration in my mind was that I'd still have a big stack if I folded.

billyjex · #5 10-27-2005, 01:37 AM

Well I've read the rest of the hand now. Your turn play is pretty bad also. You minraise, allowing him to reraise with a J and thus cutting off your odds for a full house. His minbet is great for you and you should just call and try to improve or get a cheap showdown. On the river, I'm hard pressed not to get it all in, but I can understand a flat call (given his turn play and then river play, it looks like he had two pair or a set and has now filled up as well.)

#6 10-27-2005, 02:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to defend the PF minraise too strenuously. I almost never do it, but my thinking at the time was that the rest of the table was so short relative to the blinds that the minraise would give me all the information and isolation power I needed. Essentially I thought (maybe incorrectly) that it was either push or fold for everyone except UTG.

I disagree that only a Jack calls the turn minraise.

I'll wait for more responses before I comment on the river. A major consideration in my mind was that I'd still have a big stack if I folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine folding this river. 1) push 2) call very very far 3) fold, IMHO.

I'd like to hear your reasoning.

whynot? · #7 10-27-2005, 08:24 AM

gang

so i actually play this slow as i think your behind til the river. i put the villain on ak to at,jacks and maybe 9s and maybe kq. as such i take the free cards as long as you can - on the river i certainly push - you're behind only aq/kq - if he has the over boat so be it but i push him all in and make him call

rwanger · #8 10-27-2005, 08:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A major consideration in my mind was that I'd still have a big stack if I folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't EVER fold this on the river. You've done nothing but make weak probe type bets this whole hand, and now you're thinking about folding when you minbet and get raised on a 3-flush 4-straight board?

I can see calling instead of raising, but really the only legit threat is KQ, although, I'm not convinced that KQ bets that turn. I'm also not convinced that he has a Jack, as he very well might reraise the turn...(or lead the river because you would be checking behind that river card with most hands)...

So...I'd put him on exactly two clubs. He min bet the turn as a semi-bluff / blocking bet, and now he made his flush. There is no way he puts you on making a boat the way you played this sooooo weakly...but I won't get into why you should have: raised more preflop, not raised turn, bet more on river.

betgo · #9 10-27-2005, 09:42 AM

Raise or limp preflop.

Call on the turn.

Make a bigger bet on the river. When you are checkraised, reraise.

betgo · #10 10-27-2005, 10:06 AM

What's this with the miniraising/minibetting? You made 3 of them in this hand, all terrible plays.