ok think carefully about this one and then answer

[Doubling12]

1. Call with the intention of calling down.
2. Fold.
3. Raise the turn.

Am I nuts? If you get 3-bet on the turn by a "awful loose aggressive and dumb" player, do you then 4-bet? Or fold? Yikes. I want that scenario in a different zip code.

[schroedy]

My instincts are to raise and fold to the three bet.

One point that has not been made is that if the guy is really bad, the chips will circulate again. So fold, call or raise -- not really all that important against an opponent like this.

Now the tight LOL (little old lady) two seats to my right last night and running hot -- when she got chips, she kept 'em.

[mike l.]

"To me, the key thing is to give me the best possible chance of winning the pot."

ok but i want to be double clear here that he will NEVER fold a better hand on the turn when you raise. he will not fold 66 or better.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
"To me, the key thing is to give me the best possible chance of winning the pot."

ok but i want to be double clear here that he will NEVER fold a better hand on the turn when you raise. he will not fold 66 or better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then aren't the advantages of raising the turn like...none?

The guy that bets QJ on the turn will on the river as well, right?

[JasonP530]

It seems as though you will never get a better hand to fold, but that he will value bet twice and you will call. If you raise and get reraised, you have virtually no shot of winning(I can figure you for 2 outs by catching a 5) so your raise doesnt give up that much. The only difference in the hand seems to be gettting him to fold those overcards, which, all else being almost equal, seems like a good idea.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
great 20-40 live game. he had A5o and openraised in the cutoff, bb who he describes as awful loose aggressive and dumb, reraises, gabe calls. the flop is K52 rainbow. check, check.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you are posting about the turn but I want to back up. The flop check by the awful LAG dumb BB is very suspicious after three betting pre flop. I think the liklihood that Gabe is up against a huge hand (e.g., KK or even AK) has gone up quite a bit. That said, I'd bet the flop and expect the huge hand to just call (many mediocre hands would call too). If the BB checks the turn (as a continuation of his slowplay) I'd probably bet and fold to a checkraise (unless I spiked a five which I would call down since AK is just as reasonable a hand as KK with this line).

~ Rick

PS Too tired to get to the turn. Was this tonight cause the game he was in looked great?

[bernie]

If he's not likely to fold a better hand, I'd just call him out. Isn't that about textbook for playing the bluffhappy?

I mean, say he has QJ. He's charging himself 1 bet to make 3 on a 7-1 shot. Why do you want him to fold a lesser hand here which is all he'll fold if you raise? Along with his additional bluff on the river that you can pick up.

I see a calldown. Weak a play as it looks like.

b

[Lawrence Ng]

Mike,

If I were Gabe, i would have folded the turn. Based on your description of the LAG, it sounds like he's getting tricky and holding back a monstrous hand. FOLD I say... FOLLLLDDD!!!

Lawrence

[Saborion]

Sounds like a call on the turn? Raise a river 5, 4, A. Check behind on the river unless he improves.

No point in raising the turn since
1: the opponent will fold his bluffs to the turn raise, bluffs that he'd often continue with on the river, thus Gabe miss out on another BB "most" of the time (sometimes the opponent will hit his cards on the river, will he bet them though?)
2: Gabe will sometimes get 3-bet by better hands forcing him to fold when he sometimes would've improved to the winning hand on the river?
3: he'll sometimes get to showdown for 1 BB even when he's beat.

Seems a bit too easy, so I'm sure I'm missing something (or a lot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

The check beind on the flop was because he'll be check-raised a LOT without really gaining any more information as to where he stands?

Edit: If the pot had been bigger (how much bigger?), Gabe should be more inclined to raise to get the BB to fold overcards to his pair, right?

[tolbiny]

"ok but i want to be double clear here that he will NEVER fold a better hand on the turn when you raise. he will not fold 66 or better."

Would he call a raise with a pair of 2's or 3's or 4's?