Weird Party $109 hand: TT UTG+1

[Black Aces 518]

ACK ACK ACK

He certainly could have 98 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. You can't discount this type of hand as much b/c of the damn minraise preflop. He could have ANY hand that he wanted to try and see a flop with (ps a lot of these hands have Js, Qs, Ks and As in them) . He willl NEVER fold preflop to this minraise, unless he is a complete and utter tard.

The river is a complete unmitigated disaster.

[burningyen]

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LOL, this may be the most poorly played hand in the history of poker.

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Oh I've played worse.

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Let me get this straight. You bet 150 on the river, which essentially means nothing considering the pot was so large, then proceeded to lay down your boat after a small raise.

WHY THE F%#@ DID YOU MAKE A MEANINGLESS BET, REOPEN THE ACTION, AND THEN FOLD???????????
JUST CHECK BEHIND IF YOU'RE GOING TO FOLD TO A RAISE.

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You don't think there are situations where you should bet for value even if you would fold to a raise? Let's say I bet t600 and he check-raised all-in. I think the real issue, which we've already discussed, is because I only bet 1BB, I increase the likelihood of someone trying to push me off with a lesser hand.

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The more I look at this hand the more I think this guy may have had a very weak holding. I just can't see anyone checking a hand that has you beat on the river.

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Neither could I at the time. And I couldn't see any hand that I beat calling (let alone raising) anything more than a small bet.

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90% of players would be too scared you'd just check behind and would value bet out here. Plus, when you bet 150 on the river the guy prob thought (and rightly so) you were an ultra-donk who just made the worst post oak bluff in poker history. Congrats you got destroyed this hand by A9 or some crap hand.

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I'm guessing you're being facetious about A9. I still think UTG had a bigger boat, a flush, or maybe a weirdly played J or AK. Let me ask you this: what % of the time is UTG turning over a hand that I beat if I call on the river? In order for him to have a hand like a flush, I have to assume that he limped UTG with a weak suited hand (rare) and was willing to check-raise rather than check-call a river card that pairs the board (very rare, even after the weak minbet, don't forget I minraised pre-flop in early position...not the scariest move, but it should raise red flags in his mind). Whereas limping UTG with AQo or KQ is not at all rare, and check-raising the river would be rare but not as rare as check-raising with a flush on a paired board. I think. What percentage likelihoods to assign the possibilities, and how they compare to the pot odds, I don't know.

And I wasn't post oak bluffing, I was betting for value. Badly.

[burningyen]

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The only thing weird about this hand is how you played it.

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I dunno, I think he played it kinda funny too.

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Do you have a positive ROI at this buyin level?

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You wouldn't think so, but yes, only because I've only played about 5 of them and got 4th in one on UB.

[burningyen]

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Unfathomable how you can lay it down for 650 more into a pot that large.

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I guess I decided that the odds of my having the best hand were worse than 3.65:1. Gross, I know.

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But the way you played this hand...eesh. Take the beating...learn...and never pu$$yraise again. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I won't, I'm no good at it.

[burningyen]

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While I follow your logic about the minraise, the problem is that the raise is so small relative to pot size that nearly anything could (and should) call there. Heck, even rather trashish limping hands aren't out of line calling your minraise preflop.

As for folding on the river, why were you minbetting into a giant pot anyway? Your bet is so small that a re-raise doesn't give you ANY information, as even a complete garbage hand probably re-raises there. A small bet (1/2 pot? 1/3 pot?!?!?!) would achieve a lot more than minbetting there.

What I think you did at the time was feel that raising meant you were showing strength, and that his continuation at the pot after your show of strength meant that he had strength, when in fact your raising was a giant show of weakness.

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I basically agree with everything you said.

[illegit]

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Neither could I at the time. And I couldn't see any hand that I beat calling (let alone raising) anything more than a small bet.

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Yikes. You can't see a bare J calling a half pot bet? A flush neither, huh? How long have you been playing poker? If I had either of those hands I'd Check-call a half-pot bet in a blink of an eye. And if you min-bet me for a 3rd time in one hand I'd probably pop you just on principle alone. I'd have intense hatred in my heart for you for that river bet if I was your opponent.

I love poorly played hands like this because they bring everyone together as we can all agree on them. Not like those difficult hands where everyone has a different opinion.

[burningyen]

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Yikes. You can't see a bare J calling a half pot bet? A flush neither, huh?

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Um, I've already said that I should have bet t600 or so. I don't see any point to addressing the rest of your post. I'm glad you saw some value in the thread.