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#22
11-28-2005, 12:03 PM
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the flop
Canterbury 15/30 9 handed
UTG+1 is the only decent player in the game. UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, UTG+2 limps, 1 fold, 2 more limpers to me on the button with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I decided to limp. IMO it doesn't matter much either way. Of course the SB came along and the BB checked. Flop (8 players) (8 SB): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] blinds check, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, 3 more guys call and now it's up to me, I....... 
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#25
11-28-2005, 12:36 PM
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Re: the flop
1. You possibly have the best hand.
2. You want to kick out the blinds and improve your chances of winning. 3. You want to define your hand. 4. Even if you don't have the best hand, you likely have enough equity to make raising the meat in the middle valuable. 5. You have position and can take a free card on the turn if you choose (and haven't been 3-bet). Those outweigh the chances of getting 3-bet imo. - Jim
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#26
11-28-2005, 01:58 PM
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Re: red 88...play along with me
I like raising 88 there, more than I like raising AKo there, for two reasons. Metagame and implied odds. The cost is minimal to continue to play aggressive with position with a hand that would be well disguised.
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#27
11-28-2005, 02:10 PM
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Re: red 88...play along with me
when I think about "bloating the pot", the first thing I consider is the opponents I am up against. The whole idea of bloating the pot is to induce people to chase on weak hands/draws that they wouldnt chase in a smaller pot. But if you are against a bunch of bad players who are going to chase with these same hands regardless of the pot size then theres less incentive to raise. So the worse the players are the less likely I will raise 88 in this specific situation, and the better they are the more likely Im building the pot with a raise. Also if I am convinced that the table will always check to the raiser postflop, then I would probably raise it up since the EV difference between raising and calling is close to zero, raising becomes better becuz you get to see 4 cards (if you chose to take a free card) instead of 3 cards. With no reads on the table I would probably just call.
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#29
11-28-2005, 03:00 PM
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Re: red 88...play along with me
[ QUOTE ]
to be 100% honest, the idea of bloating the pot has been one of the things i have planned on looking into if its worth it or not in terms of increasing your equity [/ QUOTE ] its not worth it. common fallacy tho. sometimes when im bluff 3bet the pot is so big that its worth it for me to bluff 5bet, then i might as well bluff 7bet and eventually the pot is so big that i figure i oughta call with my queen high. ya know, cuz i made the pot huge. sometimes im getting 10:1 on the flop with a gutterball but i know i wont be getting very good odds on the turn and i really wanna see the river so i just go ahead an cap it out on the flop so i can see the river bc i hate folding and i should win like every pot.
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#30
11-28-2005, 03:04 PM
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Re: red 88...play along with me
a few quick points.
raising is better against passive opponents since they will check to you and its easier for you to get to showdown unimproved with the best hand. raising, however, hurts your earn when you flop sets, since players wont give you mcuh action. edit: this is not true for this examle since there are gonna be so many callers that you are getting close to the requisite 8:1. however, if the pot was gonna be 3-5way it would hold raising helps your earn when you win unimproved since you are taking advantage of an immediate equity edge.
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